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Old 09-19-2011, 12:30 PM
 
Location: Centennial State
399 posts, read 817,042 times
Reputation: 176

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I'd rather have a 4Runner than a Rubicon. Comparing the Toyota RAV4 to the Rubicon is apples to oranges. Comparing the RAV4 to the Liberty is a more aligned comparison.

But for full-time 4WD I'd get a 2011+ Toyota Land Cruiser instead. For AWD, Subaru all the way. Depending on how much ground clearance you need, Subaru has the entire spectrum from 5.5" to 8.9".
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Old 09-20-2011, 10:57 AM
 
Location: Sunnyvale, CA
6,288 posts, read 11,778,248 times
Reputation: 3369
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sobe Itsavized View Post
But for full-time 4WD I'd get a 2011+ Toyota Land Cruiser instead.
I don't know about the new Land Cruisers, but for those of you who aren't aware of this, the older 1970s model Land Cruisers are widely considered to be one of the best off road vehicles of all time. Probably the only other which could compare is the British Land Rover. Which means that if you get a Land Cruiser, you've got the best vehicle you can get for adverse conditions. The new ones are probably comfortable too.
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Old 09-20-2011, 11:14 AM
 
8,317 posts, read 29,469,568 times
Reputation: 9306
Quote:
Originally Posted by 80skeys View Post
I don't know about the new Land Cruisers, but for those of you who aren't aware of this, the older 1970s model Land Cruisers are widely considered to be one of the best off road vehicles of all time. Probably the only other which could compare is the British Land Rover. Which means that if you get a Land Cruiser, you've got the best vehicle you can get for adverse conditions. The new ones are probably comfortable too.
The old 1970's-1980 FJ40 Land Cruisers were definite tanks off-road. Unfortunately, they got pretty awful fuel economy, rode horribly, and were ergonomically uncomfortable (especially for anyone over about 5' 9" tall). Very few of them were equipped with power steering, which made them a challenge to drive off-road for anyone without a lot of upper-arm strength (most women need not apply). (Anyone driving one of the older 4WD's without power steering, and I did, learned real quick not to drive off-road with one's thumb hooked over the steering wheel. Hit a rock on the trail, and the wheel would spin around, and the spoke would either sprain or break one's thumb.) The newer Land Cruisers are really a Land Cruiser in name only--certainly more comfortable, but not the off-road animal--in all senses of the word--that those old FJ40's were.
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Old 09-20-2011, 12:48 PM
 
2,175 posts, read 4,298,292 times
Reputation: 3491
Quote:
Originally Posted by 80skeys View Post
I don't know about the new Land Cruisers, but for those of you who aren't aware of this, the older 1970s model Land Cruisers are widely considered to be one of the best off road vehicles of all time. Probably the only other which could compare is the British Land Rover. Which means that if you get a Land Cruiser, you've got the best vehicle you can get for adverse conditions. The new ones are probably comfortable too.
Don't forget the British Rovers are consistently rated among the least reliable vehicles by Consumer Reports.
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Old 09-20-2011, 01:48 PM
 
Location: Leadville, CO
1,027 posts, read 1,970,582 times
Reputation: 1406
Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzlover View Post
The Patriot's backcountry capability is limited, at best. For an AWD, it might be OK, but Subaru's and the Toyota RAV4 are more reliable than Jeep. Truth is, there is no Jeep made today that I would buy, unless I was willing to swallow the less-than-stellar reliability of the Wrangler Rubicon in order to have its excellent off-road abilities. Other than that, Jeep has lost its legitimacy as the master of building good 4WD vehicles--and I was a dyed-in-the-wool Jeep fan (and owner) for years.
Keyword: Middle-ground. I'm only a mild off-roader, so for me it works, but for those who are more intense, of course they should get something more capable.
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Old 09-20-2011, 01:50 PM
 
26,212 posts, read 49,031,855 times
Reputation: 31776
Please don't be unkind to those who spend their time inputting the wisdom and nowledge gained over a lifetime, it is rather generous of them to do that. Just take what works for you and leave the rest. JazzLover, LiveContent, SunSprit and a number of others give us many fine gems on a wealth of topics.
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Old 09-20-2011, 02:03 PM
 
1,742 posts, read 3,116,315 times
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When I was in the outback of Australia years ago saw heaps of diesel Toyota Land Cruisers. They would go virtually anywhere. Could always get fuel at sheep stations, also got good fuel economy. RP
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Old 09-20-2011, 02:28 PM
 
8,317 posts, read 29,469,568 times
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Originally Posted by proveick View Post
When I was in the outback of Australia years ago saw heaps of diesel Toyota Land Cruisers. They would go virtually anywhere. Could always get fuel at sheep stations, also got good fuel economy. RP
The FJ70 Toyota Land Cruiser that is still sold overseas (read here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toyota_Land_Cruiser_(J70) ) is one of the best 4WD's ever produced. It's really unfortunate that it is not certified for sale in the United States. I would buy the diesel model in a hearbeat if it were. People I know who have driven the FJ70's overseas (for awhile they could also be sold in Canada) tell me that they will beat any Jeep out there in off-road ability.
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Old 09-20-2011, 02:35 PM
 
1,742 posts, read 3,116,315 times
Reputation: 1943
Toyota Landcruiser HJ60 1984 Diesel Wagon
http://i.ebayimg.com/00/$(KGrHqUOKisE4riIyU5fBOSkCB!ecw~~60_12.JPG (broken link)
RP
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Old 09-20-2011, 03:55 PM
 
9,846 posts, read 22,673,901 times
Reputation: 7738
Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzlover View Post
The FJ70 Toyota Land Cruiser that is still sold overseas (read here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toyota_Land_Cruiser_(J70) ) is one of the best 4WD's ever produced. It's really unfortunate that it is not certified for sale in the United States. I would buy the diesel model in a hearbeat if it were. People I know who have driven the FJ70's overseas (for awhile they could also be sold in Canada) tell me that they will beat any Jeep out there in off-road ability.
The other one is that is good overseas is the Nissan Patrol, which is now sold in the USA as the new Infiniti FX56.

The 70 series is pretty good and if it's over 25 years old, can easily be imported to the USA.
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