salaries (Denver, Colorado Springs, Aurora: real estate, renting, mortgage)

[shadow42]

My husband was just offered a job with Boeing (will be a transfer), but with a $15k paycut. We currently live in OC, Ca and I realize that the cost of living is lower in COS, but that seems like a lot of $$$$. We are wondering if we should take this or wait for something better. We also will have to pay for our move as relocation money does not come with this position. That was not a problem for us at all, but with the lower $$$ in pay also, now we are not so sure. Any advice?

[Vision67]

It depends on your objectives. Money is one factor, quality of life is another. Most companies pay salaries competitive by location.

Only you and your family can decide your priorities.

[Charles]

Here's some info for you.

I worked for Rocketdyne in Canoga Park, CA. For the same position in COS the pay was about 10-11 percent lower.

I later went to work at Northrop Grumman in Woodland Hills (Litton) and while there I got a job offer (with full relo) in COS in February 2006 (I think it was a 10% pay cut - I was OK with that.) I declined

because they needed me immediately and my kids would still be in school in Thousand Oaks until June. I was bummed thinking I had missed a great opportunity.

Two months later I got another offer with a 22% increase with full relo. This was well beyond a no brainer. Got to start in May so I lived in COS in Homewood Suites and Residence Inns for several weeks. Not

bad. Flew home on weekends (at my expense.)

The relo package was pretty good considering we sold our house in Thousand Oaks for $920K and my employer paid everything including closing costs, real estate commissions, packing, moving, temporary living

expenses, vehicles transport, house hunting trip, and much more. They even paid the taxes on those benefits which were income to me. I think Lockheed is at least that good. Probably Northrop Grumman,

Raytheon, Aerospace Corp.. are all pretty good. Check them out too.

Read in the paper the other day a bunch of HB folks working Delta (??) are going to United Launch Alliance in Denver??? Can he get in with that group?

I am sure you know this. If you own your home in OC then you might want to consider waiting for another opening which does offer the relo. If, for example, your home is in the $600K range then your out of

pocket expense to move (at 8-10%) is $48K to $60K. If you are renting then it won't be nearly that painful.

Have you considered Huntsville, AL? TONS and TONS of jobs, huge aerospace presence, jobs in both missile defense and NASA, inexpensive living, mild winters, outstanding public schools (Madison, AL too), no

traffic. It would easily be my second choice behind of Colorado Springs. In fact, if I had received an offer in Huntsville, I would have taken it just as easily as an offer from COS.

Finally, if you do make the big move (and this is discussed in great detail in other threads), consider living in extreme northern Colorado Springs or Monument. You will never have a bad drive to anywhere

with jobs in the Springs (like Schreiver AFB, Fort Carson, Peterson AFB, Cheyenne Mountain AFB, or the Boeing facilities). In addition, you will not have a bad drive to the Denver Tech Center, Buckley AFB,

Lockheed, or even the Boeing facility in Aurora should you have to look for employment outside of the Springs.

[shadow42]

Well, we want to stay with Boeing because he has a great pension (been with them for 20yrs). We really want out of CA and so were willing to relocate ourselves, but now not so sure with the large paycut. I guess it sounds typical, from what you are saying. Are living expenses really that much lower there as compared to socal?

[Charles]

Oooooooooooh Yaaaaaaa: When you consider housing.
Otherwise gasoline is cheaper, you might not need air conditioning, but you will have a higher heating bill.

Just curious, If he left Boeing he still gets the pension. If he went to Lockheed he would get a pension there. Is the sum of the two individual pensions (say 20 with Boeing plus say ten with Lockheed) worth less than say 30 with Boeing? If not, then what's the advantage of staying?

If they are worth less, would the difference be greater than a potential pay increase with a new employer combined with that employer providing relo? I guess you'd have to crank the numbers and make a few assumptions but it just might be worth to leave Boeing. Let's say he gets a ten percent raise to go to Lockheed and let's assume you get the relo. You can take the money you would have spent to move (say $50K) and stick it in an index fund. The future worth of that $50K plus the delta pay increase might be worth more than the advantage of the 30 year (vs. 20 + 10 year) pension.

[Katarina Witt]

There are lots of "cost of living" spreadsheets to be found on the web. Just google them.

I'm no expert on socal, but it sounds like a big paycut. And the relo expenses which could be steep. I'm personally not one of these people who must live in CO no matter what; if it were my life I'd look at all the angles. The lower cost of gasoline is only a very small part of your living expenses; the housing of course is a huge part. I think prices on most everything else will be comparable.

Good luck on your decision.

[shadow42]

If he leaves Boeing, he does not get his pension. We have already looked into that. I think you have to be a certain age or something. Not sure. Anyway, we really think we would like CO. Unfortunately, many of the jobs out there do not have relo $$$. We have been applying anyway figuring it may be worth it to just move ourselves. The Delta rocket spinoff will NOT be part of Boeing. It is an entirely new company and as I understand it, unless you are pegged to be in that group it is just as if you were leaving the company. So, that is where we stand right now. We could put a pretty hefty downpayment on a house out in COS which would keep our mortgage very low and easily managed. So, that is where we stand today. We will have to make a decision soon..............

[BenWolfe]

Try to negotiate. If they are offering him the transfer (rather than his requesting it) they obviously need his skills in COS and they may be willing to pay more than the initial offer. I would also take into consideration how much a $15k pay cut is as a percentage of his income. If he is currently earning $50k that is a big cut, but if he is earning $150k you probably won't even feel it.

[Charles]

Originally Posted by shadow42

If he leaves Boeing, he does not get his pension. We have already looked into that. I think you have to be a certain age or something.

If he has been there 20 years then he is vested. I am almost positive (correct me if I am wrong) that if he quits now and goes somewhere else he will keep his Boeing pension.