New Mall in Colorado Springs (Pueblo, Fountain: how much, tenants, luxury)

[Mike from back east]

Originally Posted by Josseppie

I don't have a problem with the private developer who thinks the market in Colorado Springs can support a third mall.

I just don't think the city should subsidize that by using "urban renewal" when that is a tool that should be used for redevelopment including downtown or even by UCCS.

I think we all agree with para 2.

Para 1 will get you an argument from quite a few people from the perspective that any sort of development has impacts on the people and on the jurisdiction (roads, traffic, noise, trash, pollution, crime, etc). Government has a responsibility to only allow development that fits a valid coherent master plan; too much of any one thing may be harmful and in this case some of us think the proposed mall may be injurious to the CC and IM developments that are already at risk. Adding a third major commercial / retail development within two miles would be folly from just about every possible perspective. Even if this was totally funded by private money, it would still be a terrible idea and denied the zoning and permits to build it, but since they're trying some sort of gimmick of using the urban renewal process then it really reeks.

[Josseppie]

Originally Posted by Mike from back east

I think we all agree with para 2.

Para 1 will get you an argument from quite a few people from the perspective that any sort of development has impacts on the people and on the jurisdiction (roads, traffic, noise, trash, pollution, crime, etc). Government has a responsibility to only allow development that fits a valid coherent master plan; too much of any one thing may be harmful and in this case some of us think the proposed mall may be injurious to the CC and IM developments that are already at risk. Adding a third major commercial / retail development within two miles would be folly from just about every possible perspective. Even if this was totally funded by private money, it would still be a terrible idea and denied the zoning and permits to build it, but since they're trying some sort of gimmick of using the urban renewal process then it really reeks.

Good point. Its not in the cities best interest to let developers build a new mall only to let their current mall go under.

[Josseppie]

I am not sure if Colorado Springs needs a new mall but it looks like you will be getting one. It will be interesting to see if 3 malls can survive and if not what will happen to the one that closes along with the area of town it is in.

This is from the Gazette:

About 200 acres of undeveloped land on Colorado Springs’ suburbanlike north side was designated as an urban renewal site Tuesday by the City Council.

The link: Council approves funding for Copper Ridge retail center | retail, approves, ridge - Top Stories - Colorado Springs Gazette, CO

[MulattoLouieCO]

They should put a mall Downtown if they're deadset on building one, the northside already has chapel hills, which last time I checked wasn't overpacked.

[echo98]

Originally Posted by otowi

We don't need one. But, rather than revitalize dying parts of town, they just want to build a new one in the "happening" places. Stupid planning for the long term, but they might make a buck in the shorter term. I think the Citadel is doing better than Chapel Hills now, personally - it is always fairly busy and I don't think it has as many empty stores as Chapel Hills. But it does have a different kind of clientele due to its location.

to me both have similar clientele. mostly young kids with nothing to do buying skateboard or hip hop styles or else mothers by themselves or with baby in tow going to burlington. compare this to denver's park meadows and cherry creek with young professionals buying nicer things.

however, i am against the new mall for two reasons:
1) until we get higher paying jobs, what good is a new location for the long term? more expensive stores can't make it still even with fancy new digs if the clientele is not there
2) can't a new mall be put in a more central location that does not add to suburban sprawl and allow more people to work/shop.

[Santiago Peak]

Is it any wonder why politicians (even City Council members) have the reputation they have? This is despicable. They’re using a poorly written state law that defines what can be considered an urban renewal site to designate an empty field as one. The site is neither urban nor in need of renewal. Whatever happened to looking at the spirit of a law rather than the letter of the law? Just because something is legal doesn’t mean it ought to be done.

How can the City Council justify calling this ‘urban renewal’? They can’t! And not ONE council member saw a problem with it? Not ONE council member thought to say, “Look, guys. I understand the importance of extending Powers and I realize we can’t be counting on the state for funding. But calling this ‘urban renewal’ is just retarded.” It’s sad, but no, not one.

[TheTomness]

1. I found a detailed presentation on the Cooper Ridge project with the Powers expansion designs:
http://www.springsgov.com/units/plan...0906/ItemA.pdf

2. We could always petition for all future 'urban renewal sites' not be undeveloped land.

Pros:
* Keeps the Suburbanites up north and out of our real Colorado Springs areas.
* Gives the lonely old Mining Museum some company
* The Powers Blvd. Expansion could be completed and we can stop hearing about how it needs to be done, after all these years of ranting and raving.
* Helps get rid of all that nice scenery along I25, I always hated seeing all that untouched beautiful prairie land surrounded by all those ugly tract homes. Serves it right.

Cons:
* The Location doesn't really help the rest of the city any, like what you guys have been saying, theres better areas of town that could use a boost. The location serves more of the Tri-lakes and black forest peoples than springs residents?
* It's another thing you have to drive to instead of in walking distance, which also means more land wasted on parking lots than anything being built. What a eye-sore.
* No in door water-park or in door skate-park involved, WTF!
* What about Preble's Mouse?
* Most people I know with money would rather buy items online than at malls or downtown, so how is this mall going to hold up against such a market.
* Sounds like its going to be all fancy chain stores, and doesn't really support local retailers.

[Mike from back east]

If they really wanted to do some urban renewal of the correct sort, in downtown COLO SPGS, they should look at scraping a lot of the tired old stuff south of Rio Grande Street and proceed on down to the RR tracks. That area of town is old and gritty. Now that the city has grown up around it, that area would be PRIME land in most other cities, virtually unaffordable. But since we have so much vacant land here in the west, it's easier (cheaper) to just take some more prairie and pave it over, letting downtown rot.

That area of downtown is a good example of what urban renewal was designed to alleviate. Copper Ridge is not.

That area already HAS a full grid of streets supporting it, with several exits off I-25 that could feed it.

Police and fire department infrastructure are already in place down there.

I especially like that a rail line runs through there. Any decent visionary could foresee passenger rail stops downtown that could bring workers and shoppers to our downtown, all the way from Pueblo to Monument, etc.

A SCOTUS decision the other year in made it very easy for cities to use the condemnation and eminent domain processes, even if the desire is to build commercial / retail on the land. Why not use that process.

But why bother doing the right thing for COLO SPGS when you have all segments of the highway lobby behind you with all their money.

As noted, this insane scheme is being floated solely as a way to finish Powers Blvd, which begs the question: WHY isn't Powers finished? IMO, it's because of TABOR, which handcuffs the state in performing its mission. The entire scheme is just a desperate end run around a law that has had some bad unintended consequences, and if this makes it, the end run will cost us a lot more than it would have without TABOR. Pull trigger, shoot self in foot.

[summit21]

Politics aside, I think it is a good idea. You have a large population base of higher income families in both the Tri-Lakes/Northgate/Black Forest area (tons of $500,000+ properties up here, i.e.. King's Deer, Catheedral Pines, and High Forest Ranch to name a few). Colorado Springs needs a "Park Meadow-esque" shopping experience. Both the Citadel, and Chapel Hills cannot touch Park Meadows in terms of shopping experience and visual appeal. They are both old and outdated. I understand the agrument against urban sprawl, but if it was done in manner that makes it visually appealing, which that area is not right now, I say do it. Yes, i read this a few months back and the politics of it do reek of something foul, which is unfortunate. Despite the higher incomes on this side, I'm still not sure if it would survive in this economy. I support the idea even if it were not on the north side, b/c the 2 malls we have now suck, IMO.

[echo98]

Originally Posted by summit21

Politics aside, I think it is a good idea. You have a large population base of higher income families in both the Tri-Lakes/Northgate/Black Forest area (tons of $500,000+ properties up here, i.e.. King's Deer, Catheedral Pines, and High Forest Ranch to name a few). Colorado Springs needs a "Park Meadow-esque" shopping experience. Both the Citadel, and Chapel Hills cannot touch Park Meadows in terms of shopping experience and visual appeal. They are both old and outdated. I understand the agrument against urban sprawl, but if it was done in manner that makes it visually appealing, which that area is not right now, I say do it. Yes, i read this a few months back and the politics of it do reek of something foul, which is unfortunate. Despite the higher incomes on this side, I'm still not sure if it would survive in this economy. I support the idea even if it were not on the north side, b/c the 2 malls we have now suck, IMO.

but do they suck as a result to the clientele of this town? building a new mall isn't miracously going to make people spend more for an item that they can get at walmart for 1/10th the price.