Colorado economy? (Denver, Colorado Springs, Pueblo: home, unemployed, closing)

[Josseppie]

Originally Posted by Bob from down south

Pueblo, the "alpha city." That claptrap belongs on Comedy Central. What's next, "Detroit, the jewel of the midwest??!!"

An alpha city is a city which plays a major role in the regional community. Alpha cities have tremendous economic, political, and social clout, and they are viewed as primary hubs for industry, in addition to centers of culture.


Pueblo is all that for southern Colorado.

[davidv]

Originally Posted by Josseppie

Davidv,

I could show my math if you like but when I looked at the 9 counties in southern Colorado it came to 1.5 billion dollars in farm sales where Weld County has only $272,710 in farm sales.

To be honest and fair both Pueblo and Greeley are known as the large agriculture towns and in fact have a lot in common. Economically speaking the big difference is Pueblo has a manufacturing base as well with the steel mill and our isolation from Denver has made us a economic hub for a larger region then Greeley is. For example in the 20 county region stores like Best Buy, Dillards, Sam's Club, JC Penny etc., are located in Pueblo and everyone else has to drive here to shop. Politically speaking Pueblo is the largest city in a U.S. congressional district while Greeley is with Fort Collins and Loveland giving Pueblo more of a say then Greeley has and that is why more presidents have visited Pueblo then Greeley and why governors visit Pueblo more then they do Greeley.

It is not your math on Weld County you need to check, it is your math on the Arkansas Valley counties that needs checking. If you would post a link to your Arkansas Valley figures, then I could see where things went wrong. As it stands, the figures I posted come directly from the Ag Census of 2007, and you are welcome to check my math.

[davidv]

Originally Posted by Josseppie

An alpha city is a city which plays a major role in the regional community. Alpha cities have tremendous economic, political, and social clout, and they are viewed as primary hubs for industry, in addition to centers of culture.


Pueblo is all that for southern Colorado.

As a trained geographer, I must admit that I have ever heard of the concept of an "alpha city." In a global or national urban hierarchical system, it is doubtful that Pueblo would rank higher than Greeley or Grand Junction in importance.

In a geographical sense, it is not the size of the city that matters, it is the number of functions that the city serves that is important.

In Greeley's, Pueblo's, and Grand Junction's cases, each city provides a number of services for the area around. No one city is more important than another as each fills the same role for the region they are in.

Before you argue that Ft. Collins usurps Greeley's importance, remember that both Greeley and Ft. Collins have the same number of services. It is Greeley's proximity to the towns on the plains that makes it important to its region. A person from Sterling is more apt to drive to Greeley for services, but not likely to bypass Greeley for Ft. Collins. That person will bypass Greeley for Denver, as Denver offers more goods and services than Greeley does.

Pueblo's standing as the largest city in the congressional district is irrelevant as CDs do not have capitals. Besides, Pueblo could easily be drawn into another district and lose its standing as the largest city. Visit from presidents are the result of the fact that Pueblo IS an important concentration of Hispanics in Colorado, a fact that won't change any time soon.

[Josseppie]

Originally Posted by davidv

It is not your math on Weld County you need to check, it is your math on the Arkansas Valley counties that needs checking. If you would post a link to your Arkansas Valley figures, then I could see where things went wrong. As it stands, the figures I posted come directly from the Ag Census of 2007, and you are welcome to check my math.

Crop Sales:

Pueblo: 15,841,000
Crowley: 1,570,000
Otero: 26,729,000
Bent: 19,029,000
Prowers: 82,147,000
Kiowa: 51,904,000
Baca: 60,759,000
Las Animas: 3,398,000
Hierfano:3,457,000
Custer: 2,250,000
Costilla: 22,840,000
Alamosa: 86,046,000
Saguache: 78,536,000
Rio Grande: 78,057,000
Conejos: 18,804,000
Fremont:4,787,000

Livestock Sales

Pueblo: 33,411,000
Crowley:109,352,000
Otero:84,458,000
Bent: 63,191,000
Prowers:181,174,000
Kiowa:16,486,000
Baca: 50,443,000
Las Animas: 21,999,000
Hierfano: 8,808,000
Custer: 6,174,000
Costilla: 3,820,000
Alamosa: 5,367,000
Saguache: 12,920,000
Rio Grande7,302,000
Conejos: 12,764,000
Fremont: 4,787,000

Total: 613,186,000

Crop Sales 556,154,000
Livestock Sales 613,186,000

Grand Total: 1,169,340,000


This is for the "Pueblo Region". I am gald I did my math again as I did make a mistake.

The link: http://www.agcensus.usda.gov/Publica...rado/index.asp

[Mike from back east]

Which proves that Weld County, alone, with $1,539,072,000 in combined crop and livestock output, dwarfs the 16 counties in S.E. Colo.

[Josseppie]

That is because Weld county does more in cattle sales and that brings in more money then crop sales.

I think this is splitting hairs anyway. When asked where the larger agriculture towns are in eastern Colorado Pueblo and Greeley are usually mentioned.

I know this would never happen because of politics but if I was to draw up a congressional district I would have it include Pueblo and Greeley and the rest of eastern Colorado including the San Louis Valley as they have a lot in common.

[Josseppie]

Originally Posted by davidv

As a trained geographer, I must admit that I have ever heard of the concept of an "alpha city." In a global or national urban hierarchical system, it is doubtful that Pueblo would rank higher than Greeley or Grand Junction in importance.

In a geographical sense, it is not the size of the city that matters, it is the number of functions that the city serves that is important.

In Greeley's, Pueblo's, and Grand Junction's cases, each city provides a number of services for the area around. No one city is more important than another as each fills the same role for the region they are in.

Before you argue that Ft. Collins usurps Greeley's importance, remember that both Greeley and Ft. Collins have the same number of services. It is Greeley's proximity to the towns on the plains that makes it important to its region. A person from Sterling is more apt to drive to Greeley for services, but not likely to bypass Greeley for Ft. Collins. That person will bypass Greeley for Denver, as Denver offers more goods and services than Greeley does.

Pueblo's standing as the largest city in the congressional district is irrelevant as CDs do not have capitals. Besides, Pueblo could easily be drawn into another district and lose its standing as the largest city. Visit from presidents are the result of the fact that Pueblo IS an important concentration of Hispanics in Colorado, a fact that won't change any time soon.

My understanding is regional alpha cities are just that major regional cities. I would call Grand Junction the alpha city for the western slope, however, Greeley, Fort Collins and Loveland's proximity to Denver hurts them as I would call Denver the alpha city of northern Colorado.

[Bob from down south]

Originally Posted by Josseppie

That is because Weld county does more in cattle sales and that brings in more money then crop sales.

I think this is splitting hairs anyway. When asked where the larger agriculture towns are in eastern Colorado Pueblo and Greeley are usually mentioned.

I know this would never happen because of politics but if I was to draw up a congressional district I would have it include Pueblo and Greeley and the rest of eastern Colorado including the San Louis Valley as they have a lot in common.

I guess it's "splitting hairs" in your eyes whenever someone points out that you're dead wrong.

I think it's more that your poorly made argument was torn asunder.

What you think is not supported by objective analysis of the data, and never was. You, once again, have whipped up a cloud of faulty analysis and incomplete data to support your ongoing propaganda campaign to paint Pueblo as something besides the small, dirty, inconsequential town that it is.

[davidv]

Your idea of an "alpha city" (a term I have never heard in 15 years of studying/teaching geography) can be loosely associated with Cristaller's central place theory. According to Cristaller, towns and cities serve economic functions for the populations that live in and around them. People who need to buy goods or use services will frequent the closest place (town/city) to their homes. This theory is based on two major concepts: a good or service's range (the distance a person is willing to travel for the good or service) and a good or service's threshold (the minimum number of people needed to support the good or service).

The more basic a good or service is, the smaller its range and threshold will be. For example, because food is a basic necessity for all people, you will find businesses that sell food in every size of town/city. Such businesses are known as ubiquitous industries (supermarkets and gas stations are good examples). The theory says that people will frequent the supermarket closest to home.

The less basic a good or service is, the higher its range and threshold. The number of people needed to support such businesses is high, so a greater population base is necessary. These goods and services are found only in larger cities. Examples of these goods/services are things like auto dealerships and furniture stores (which can be found in medium to large cites), to professional sports teams (found only in the largest markets).

My point is this. What makes Denver important is the unique goods and services that it offers that cannot be found in smaller cities and towns. Denver is the largest central place not just for Northern Colorado, but for the entire Rocky Mountain region.

Pueblo falls into a category of cities somewhere below Denver, but higher than Alamosa or Lamar.

[Mike from back east]

Originally Posted by Bob from down south

I guess it's "splitting hairs" in your eyes whenever someone points out that you're dead wrong.

I think it's more that your poorly made argument was torn asunder.

What you think is not supported by objective analysis of the data, and never was. You, once again, have whipped up a cloud of faulty analysis and incomplete data to support your ongoing propaganda campaign to paint Pueblo as something besides the small, dirty, inconsequential town that it is.

What he say.

IMO, the ONLY major regional city within 500 miles is DENVER; Salt Lake City being 512 and Omaha 559 miles distant.