Fracking your future (Denver, Keystone: to buy, school, university)

[wanneroo]

Originally Posted by Idunn

'The maker of the Oscar-nominated documentary Gasland was arrested and handcuffed at Congress when he tried to film a hearing about the controversial mining method known as fracking. … The confrontation with Fox came as the Environmental Protection Agency released more than 620 documents in support of its finding that fracking had contaminated the drinking water of a small town in Wyoming.' [1]


Apparently there is something that Congress does not want Josh Fox, and we the public, to know about these matters of public interest with fracking.

Such as maybe further details on how fracking has been conclusively linked with contamination of the water in Pavillion, WY.

1) 'Josh Fox, director of Gasland, arrested at fracking hearing,' The Guardian
Josh Fox, director of Gasland, arrested at fracking hearing | Environment | The Guardian

It is amusing these people that do not follow rules for what are orderly public or private hearings and then use it to complain "my free speech rights blah blah". It's basically a set up to create a scene and promote themselves.

I remember when the gasland movie came out and then I started picking through it on my own, rather than just guzzling the kool aid and found basically the film was factually incorrect for the most part, especially on the flaming faucet.

I have environmental concerns like anyone else and I don't want the environment trashed, but after actually taking the time to ask questions and see things in person, you get clarity from seeing things literally and not from buying into media kool aid. Shell, in my town has public meetings all the time, you can call them anytime you want, you can talk to the workers on these wells, there are safety people at all the wells, any spills that happen are cleaned up and the waste water is recycled.

But sure if some snotty guy with a hostile viewpoint and an agenda to make a documentary to smear my industry turned up at my door, i'd tell em to get lost too.

[phetaroi]

Originally Posted by Idunn

Are not the welfare of our public lands and furtherance in the purity of the lifeblood of our water of some small measure our interest?

Of course. But the problems related to fracking are hardly a secret. I've read at least a dozen extensive news articles about the issue in the past year.

[CosmicWizard]

Idunn wrote:

But are our public servants so shy of the limelight in their deliberations -- and why?

They are not shy in the least when there's a photo op or a chance to tell a big white lie to the public. However, they become very shy if there is the slightest chance that a purposely hidden truth might be exposed. WHY? Because that's what their corporate bosses want them to do.

[wanneroo]

Originally Posted by CosmicWizard

Idunn wrote:

But are our public servants so shy of the limelight in their deliberations -- and why?

They are not shy in the least when there's a photo op or a chance to tell a big white lie to the public. However, they become very shy if there is the slightest chance that a purposely hidden truth might be exposed. WHY? Because that's what their corporate bosses want them to do.

Fracking isn't rocket science, although there is some high tech seismic modeling and the drilling is extremely accurate down to the foot.

Pretty much anything could be found out as I did, either searching online and joining some of the shale gas forums(my local county group has around 200 people online), talking to people in person and asking questions or going to the many company run or local and state government meetings that go on about this.

I think what is easier for people to do is watch a documentary with fragmented information that has an agenda bordering on hysterical and get themselves all worked up and indignant plus get into the whole conspiracy theory bit.

That is easier than actually wading through a lot of information and asking questions to figure it all about.

[CosmicWizard]

wanneroo wrote:

Fracking isn't rocket science, although there is some high tech seismic modeling and the drilling is extremely accurate down to the foot.

Pretty much anything could be found out as I did, either searching online and joining some of the shale gas forums(my local county group has around 200 people online), talking to people in person and asking questions or going to the many company run or local and state government meetings that go on about this.

I think what is easier for people to do is watch a documentary with fragmented information that has an agenda bordering on hysterical and get themselves all worked up and indignant plus get into the whole conspiracy theory bit.

That is easier than actually wading through a lot of information and asking questions to figure it all about.

My negativity toward fracking is based on real life situatons rather than information on the internet. I have several friends in the greater Glenwood Springs area who had their wells polluted from the totally safe and scientifically validated practice of fracking.

[jazzlover]

I know people who work for the fracking companies. What they will tell you, off the record, is that there are a lot of companies that it do it safely and correctly and there are a lot of companies that don't. A lot of it depends on the quality of the crews actually working at the site, and how well they are supervised and managed by the company. One fellow I know actually quit working for one company doing a lot of business in Colorado because the management of the company did not manage its crews well at all--and, as a result, there was a lot of sloppy work done on the sites. This fellow wanted no part of that and now works mostly out of Colorado for a company with a much better reputation. Unfortunately, when numerous companies do not manage their operations prudently, it can cause the kinds of horror stories that one can read about in the media, and it also invites imposition of sometimes over-zealous government regulation. Sadly, during a "boom" such as is occurring in gas drilling, companies will often hire ill-trained and unqualified people to work for them. Compounding that problem is the increasing "I don't give a s***" attitude among many employees, especially the younger ones, working today. What that attitude shows up in people working in jobs where shoddy work can have disastrous results--such as fracking--bad stuff is going to happen.

[wanneroo]

Originally Posted by CosmicWizard

wanneroo wrote:

Fracking isn't rocket science, although there is some high tech seismic modeling and the drilling is extremely accurate down to the foot.

Pretty much anything could be found out as I did, either searching online and joining some of the shale gas forums(my local county group has around 200 people online), talking to people in person and asking questions or going to the many company run or local and state government meetings that go on about this.

I think what is easier for people to do is watch a documentary with fragmented information that has an agenda bordering on hysterical and get themselves all worked up and indignant plus get into the whole conspiracy theory bit.

That is easier than actually wading through a lot of information and asking questions to figure it all about.

My negativity toward fracking is based on real life situatons rather than information on the internet. I have several friends in the greater Glenwood Springs area who had their wells polluted from the totally safe and scientifically validated practice of fracking.

Water wells around Glenwood have had methane laced water you can get a flame from the dawn of western civilization in that area, plus various other crap in the groundwater. How can they prove it was from fracking?

[phetaroi]

Originally Posted by jazzlover

I know people who work for the fracking companies. What they will tell you, off the record, is that there are a lot of companies that it do it safely and correctly and there are a lot of companies that don't. A lot of it depends on the quality of the crews actually working at the site, and how well they are supervised and managed by the company. One fellow I know actually quit working for one company doing a lot of business in Colorado because the management of the company did not manage its crews well at all--and, as a result, there was a lot of sloppy work done on the sites. This fellow wanted no part of that and now works mostly out of Colorado for a company with a much better reputation. Unfortunately, when numerous companies do not manage their operations prudently, it can cause the kinds of horror stories that one can read about in the media, and it also invites imposition of sometimes over-zealous government regulation. Sadly, during a "boom" such as is occurring in gas drilling, companies will often hire ill-trained and unqualified people to work for them. Compounding that problem is the increasing "I don't give a s***" attitude among many employees, especially the younger ones, working today. What that attitude shows up in people working in jobs where shoddy work can have disastrous results--such as fracking--bad stuff is going to happen.

Hearsay evidence.

Why not invited some of those folks you talked to to participate for themselves in the forum, or come over and use your computer to do so? Then we get the info first hand.

[jazzlover]

Originally Posted by phetaroi

Hearsay evidence.

Why not invited some of those folks you talked to to participate for themselves in the forum, or come over and use your computer to do so? Then we get the info first hand.

Better idea: Why don't you get off of your duff and go talk to the people in the industry yourself, as I have done? I suspect, since you never take my word for anything, that you wouldn't take theirs either. So, what's the point?

[phetaroi]

Originally Posted by jazzlover

Better idea: Why don't you get off of your duff and go talk to the people in the industry yourself, as I have done? I suspect, since you never take my word for anything, that you wouldn't take theirs either. So, what's the point?

Part of my background is in the geosciences, so I can read journal articles and learn what I need to know. And I don't disagree with you that fracking can be done safely. But I also know it isn't always done safely. I'm very aware of incidences of earthquakes attributed to fracking, and of pollution of drinking water. In fact, am I wrong or have you not mentioned the importance of drinking water in Colorado in other threads? And, in my view, human safety trumps every other factor. Colorado has a long, long history of illness and death related to mining. Travel to virtually any region of the state and you can see it first hand. Billions of dollars spent in cleaning up the land. We don't start it again...or should I say continue pillaging the land until safety procedures are well established.

Although it's not a Colorado situation, this is very similar to the Keystone Pipeline for oil going through Nebraska. I have no problem with such a pipeline, but I am very concerned that the particular route selected may be vulnerable and has the potential of polluting the Ogallala aquifer.

The day is over where we can simply drill and pollute full speed ahead and be damned with the fallout. We've been through enough cancers and Love Canals. We ought to have learned by now.