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Old 01-06-2011, 09:07 AM
 
Location: Virginia Beach, VA
11,153 posts, read 12,626,511 times
Reputation: 14918

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These last two posts were some of your best work yet, I'm impressed. And I did note after reviewing CSU Pueblo's web-site that they are introducing additional graduate level degrees and trying to grow their graduate studies programs, so that is a good thing. I do caution you, however, to not write off Mesa State as "insignificant". You stated that CSU Pueblo is the only major university in the district, which is simply not true. Mesa State is a larger and more established institution that deserves mention as well. It also has survived without the aid and namesake of a larger school. Even you have admitted that CSU Pueblo was a joke when it was University of Southern Colorado. As to which one is better? I honestly could care less. I'm sure that both are doing all they can with what they have to provide the best student experience and develop bright minds for the future. There is probably little difference in the quality of degrees conferred by either school.

Call it a "sister school", "satellite campus", or "independent university", but when one hears "Colorado State University" they think of the school in Fort Collins. I understand that the Pueblo school has been taken under the CSU umbrella, but there is a major difference between the two schools. Larger schools often take one and "save" smaller ones in order to accomplish a few things, not the least of which is to open up their system to students of lower income or lower GPA. CSU Pueblo is a project school for the original CSU. There's nothing wrong with that, but remember, it has taken CSU since 1870-before Colorado was even a state- to build up its current reputation. Colleges and universities don't just slap a new name on the sign at the edge of the campus and instantly become highly respected institutions of higher learning. As we have both mentioned, the school was a joke before the name change. It still has a tarnished reputation to recover from, and changing the name only gets it so far. It will take a noteworthy length of time before CSU Pueblo will be able to survive on its own reputation. Until then, it needs all the help it can get from Fort Collins, and the CSU moniker.

As for "opening it up for speculation" by talking about GJ MSA, I'll openly admit I've done the same. The differences between us is that when I am speculating, I say "I'm speculating". You present your speculation as fact, and to someone who is not familiar with the area, it can be very misleading.

I brought it up to highlight that Pueblo is not the sole pivotal city in the 3rd District. I haven't looked at the elections numbers so I am just speculating, but I am going to guess that Tipton carried Mesa County handily. If this is the case, then the district has a strong GOP and strong Democrat population center, with a bunch of small towns making up the rest. And in keeping with a theme I've echoed earlier, one may then conclude that Tipton won BECAUSE of Grand Junction, and DESPITE Pueblo. All those amenities you mentioned notwithstanding, Pueblo does not exert the influence that you believe it does.
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Old 01-07-2011, 03:44 PM
 
Location: Canon City, Colorado
1,331 posts, read 4,785,405 times
Reputation: 685
Josse.....you have met your match in iknowftbll...can't argue with facts and reason!! Well, you could but the outcome would be that you would be running in circles!! I do think that you could run for office and be some sort of ambassador for Pueblo but, and that's a BIG but, ..you would then be involved in "government" and IF you get involved in "government"..you are pretty much (messed up?) if you speak against the military~! No one cares how very much you love your city if you can't stand to be around the very citizens that get you there. Of course, they do fight for your right to be a complete ...whatever...but you won't last ...it is politics afterall!!! Just saying!
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Old 01-14-2011, 12:24 AM
 
Location: Pueblo - Colorado's Second City
12,250 posts, read 22,726,670 times
Reputation: 4338
Quote:
Originally Posted by iknowftbll View Post
These last two posts were some of your best work yet, I'm impressed. And I did note after reviewing CSU Pueblo's web-site that they are introducing additional graduate level degrees and trying to grow their graduate studies programs, so that is a good thing. I do caution you, however, to not write off Mesa State as "insignificant". You stated that CSU Pueblo is the only major university in the district, which is simply not true. Mesa State is a larger and more established institution that deserves mention as well. It also has survived without the aid and namesake of a larger school. Even you have admitted that CSU Pueblo was a joke when it was University of Southern Colorado. As to which one is better? I honestly could care less. I'm sure that both are doing all they can with what they have to provide the best student experience and develop bright minds for the future. There is probably little difference in the quality of degrees conferred by either school.

Call it a "sister school", "satellite campus", or "independent university", but when one hears "Colorado State University" they think of the school in Fort Collins. I understand that the Pueblo school has been taken under the CSU umbrella, but there is a major difference between the two schools. Larger schools often take one and "save" smaller ones in order to accomplish a few things, not the least of which is to open up their system to students of lower income or lower GPA. CSU Pueblo is a project school for the original CSU. There's nothing wrong with that, but remember, it has taken CSU since 1870-before Colorado was even a state- to build up its current reputation. Colleges and universities don't just slap a new name on the sign at the edge of the campus and instantly become highly respected institutions of higher learning. As we have both mentioned, the school was a joke before the name change. It still has a tarnished reputation to recover from, and changing the name only gets it so far. It will take a noteworthy length of time before CSU Pueblo will be able to survive on its own reputation. Until then, it needs all the help it can get from Fort Collins, and the CSU moniker.

As for "opening it up for speculation" by talking about GJ MSA, I'll openly admit I've done the same. The differences between us is that when I am speculating, I say "I'm speculating". You present your speculation as fact, and to someone who is not familiar with the area, it can be very misleading.

I brought it up to highlight that Pueblo is not the sole pivotal city in the 3rd District. I haven't looked at the elections numbers so I am just speculating, but I am going to guess that Tipton carried Mesa County handily. If this is the case, then the district has a strong GOP and strong Democrat population center, with a bunch of small towns making up the rest. And in keeping with a theme I've echoed earlier, one may then conclude that Tipton won BECAUSE of Grand Junction, and DESPITE Pueblo. All those amenities you mentioned notwithstanding, Pueblo does not exert the influence that you believe it does.
I would say the big difference between Mesa State and CSU pueblo is research and being in a "system" gives CSU pueblo a advantage that Mesa State will never have. This came across my google alerts this week and is the latest example of why being in a system is good.

This is from CSU Fort Collins:

FORT COLLINS - The National Science Foundation has awarded Colorado State University $627,326 in stimulus funds for a centralized high-performance computing system available to all university researchers. The National Science Foundation proposal was submitted by ISTeC on behalf of Colorado State University in Fort Collins and Colorado State University-Pueblo.

The link: Colorado State University Receives $627,000 in Stimulus Funding for High-performance Computing; New System Debuts Jan. 14 - News & Information - Colorado State University

Colorado State University - Pueblo has had a engineering program that has done research for decades that dates back to when it was USC. Plus it has a excellent pre-med program along with other programs that do research. Then in part because of Space Institute in Colorado Springs, Colorado State University - Pueblo now has a S.T.E.M floor. So this computer system will be a huge boost to the Pueblo university and I am excited to see that the system got the funding. Unfortunately this is something Mesa State could never do on its own and as time goes on will be a factor in CSU Pueblo's growth in research and as a result will help Pueblo and this region attract companies that we have never been able to attract before.

I want to say I have much respect for Mesa State and its a great college. Its just not on the same level as Colorado State University - Pueblo and that's ok as Colorado State University Pueblo will never be on the same level as CSU FC or CU Boulder. I just think CSU Pueblo will have a larger impact on this region this Mesa State has and be the reason more companies move here and as the title of this thread asks. That helps make Pueblo a good place to live.

As far as the politics. This was a wave election and lets wait and see what happens in 2012. Pueblo was the reason Salazar was elected in the first place and I suspect once its a "normal" election cycle Pueblo will elect a democrat again. BTW look where the House minority leader is from in Colorado and Lt. Gov. Joe Garcia considers himself a Puebloan and look at this:

Gov.-elect John Hickenlooper announced Monday that Lt. Gov. Joe Garcia will also serve as executive director of the Colorado Department of Higher Education.

The link: http://coloradoindependent.com/71426...-ed-commission

So for only being 100,000 people Pueblo has A LOT of power in the state.

Last edited by Josseppie; 01-14-2011 at 12:42 AM..
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Old 01-14-2011, 12:31 AM
 
Location: Pueblo - Colorado's Second City
12,250 posts, read 22,726,670 times
Reputation: 4338
Quote:
Originally Posted by SheridanL View Post
Josse.....you have met your match in iknowftbll...can't argue with facts and reason!! Well, you could but the outcome would be that you would be running in circles!! I do think that you could run for office and be some sort of ambassador for Pueblo but, and that's a BIG but, ..you would then be involved in "government" and IF you get involved in "government"..you are pretty much (messed up?) if you speak against the military~! No one cares how very much you love your city if you can't stand to be around the very citizens that get you there. Of course, they do fight for your right to be a complete ...whatever...but you won't last ...it is politics afterall!!! Just saying!
I love the military I just would not want Pueblo to be a military town. This week I read where with the budget cuts and the new reality that comes after 2015 with the downsizing Colorado Springs could be in trouble. I only bring that up here because it has been discussed already as a reason the OP is looking at Pueblo and not Colorado Springs and that is why I am not sure having a economy based on the military is a good idea.
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Old 01-14-2011, 04:51 PM
 
Location: Canon City, Colorado
1,331 posts, read 4,785,405 times
Reputation: 685
Josse..you dont think an economy based on the military is a good idea?? REALLY?? Do away with that economy and see what happens!!
These are ordinary families doing an extraordinary job!!! Without them we are pretty much toast!! Ya' know?
It's kinda like people who believe in God and the hereafter....doesn't matter IF you believe or not....take it away and just see the unrest that would ensue!! No beliefs in a higher power OR NO military to keep peace. I guess that would be something I personally am not willing to experience!
No law ..no order? Come on....
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Old 01-14-2011, 05:23 PM
 
Location: Pueblo - Colorado's Second City
12,250 posts, read 22,726,670 times
Reputation: 4338
Quote:
Originally Posted by SheridanL View Post
Josse..you dont think an economy based on the military is a good idea?? REALLY?? Do away with that economy and see what happens!!
These are ordinary families doing an extraordinary job!!! Without them we are pretty much toast!! Ya' know?
It's kinda like people who believe in God and the hereafter....doesn't matter IF you believe or not....take it away and just see the unrest that would ensue!! No beliefs in a higher power OR NO military to keep peace. I guess that would be something I personally am not willing to experience!
No law ..no order? Come on....
You keep making it personal with the service members and their family members and its not. In fact I have nothing but the greatest respect for them as they make my freedom I enjoy possible. I am just referring to the economy nothing more. Also, some people like to live in military towns and I think that's great I just think that a town economy based on just the military is a bad idea and I am glad Pueblo is not that way. Lets be honest Pueblo has plenty of Military as many Fort Carson soldiers live here, I see them all the time, the USAF has the first level pilot school that is essentially a military base and makes our airport in the top 50 busiest for take off and landings in the country. However, our economy is diversified and not based on 1 industry as it was when it was based on the steel industry and look where that got Pueblo. 30 years of stagnation when the steel industry collapsed as we had to completely reinvent our economy. The Springs has not learned from Pueblo and is going down the same path. Don't take my word for it look at this from Fox News:

COLORADO SPRINGS, Colo. (AP) — The Gazette reports that the plan would leave military bases and programs in Colorado Springs intact for the short term. However, the planned post-war downsizing following 2015 could reduce the number of troops in the city.

The link: Proposed Pentagon cuts wouldn't have immediate impact on military presence in Colorado Springs - KDVR (http://www.kdvr.com/news/sns-ap-co--pentagonbudgetcuts-colorado,0,3154295.story - broken link)

It goes on to say that defense spending is 40% of Colorado Springs economy. If Colorado Springs were to lose 1 or 2 bases their economy would be in a tail spin worse then Pueblo's was when the steel industry collapsed. I am not sure what will happen as I have no crystal ball but with what is going on it does not look good for the long term and that comes from me who is a optimist.
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Old 01-14-2011, 05:49 PM
 
Location: Virginia Beach, VA
11,153 posts, read 12,626,511 times
Reputation: 14918
That article simply says "if" and is the speculation of the writer. It does not cite any sources which indicate that any of Colorado Springs' bases WILL be downsized, it simply says "IF" it happens...


Remember too, Colorado Springs economy has survived years of constant deployments of troops from its bases. It has been in flux for the entire decade. At no time has the city had its full complement of troops "on deck". So once withdrawals from Iraq and Afghanistan are complete, and units based out of Colorado Springs have returned, there is likely to be a small surge in the economy as troops are home, and their families return from living with THEIR relatives while loved ones are deployed.
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Old 01-14-2011, 05:54 PM
 
704 posts, read 1,647,801 times
Reputation: 649
Pueblo would almost definitely benefit economically and otherwise from a heightened military presence.

Either way, I was recently in Pueblo and was really impressed by what the city has done with its riverfront and the older, more historic neighborhood surrounding the Rosemount Mansion. While much of Pueblo still remains dumpy and unimpressive, there are parts of Pueblo that rival anywhere in Colorado. It reminded me, at times, of the Park Hill neighborhood in Denver, both in terms of architecture and general vibe.
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Old 01-14-2011, 06:12 PM
 
Location: Pueblo - Colorado's Second City
12,250 posts, read 22,726,670 times
Reputation: 4338
Quote:
Originally Posted by GoneNative View Post
Pueblo would almost definitely benefit economically and otherwise from a heightened military presence.

Either way, I was recently in Pueblo and was really impressed by what the city has done with its riverfront and the older, more historic neighborhood surrounding the Rosemount Mansion. While much of Pueblo still remains dumpy and unimpressive, there are parts of Pueblo that rival anywhere in Colorado. It reminded me, at times, of the Park Hill neighborhood in Denver, both in terms of architecture and general vibe.
The ironic thing is that area you said rivals any parts of Colorado was picked as the best historic neighborhood in the state and one of the best in the country.

This is from KOAA:

The North Side District, which includes houses along N. Elizabeth and Greenwood, was chosen as the best old house neighborhood in Colorado.

The link: Pueblo historic neighborhood makes magazine's best list | NewsFirst5.com | Colorado Springs | Pueblo |
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Old 01-14-2011, 06:19 PM
 
Location: Pueblo - Colorado's Second City
12,250 posts, read 22,726,670 times
Reputation: 4338
Quote:
Originally Posted by iknowftbll View Post
That article simply says "if" and is the speculation of the writer. It does not cite any sources which indicate that any of Colorado Springs' bases WILL be downsized, it simply says "IF" it happens...


Remember too, Colorado Springs economy has survived years of constant deployments of troops from its bases. It has been in flux for the entire decade. At no time has the city had its full complement of troops "on deck". So once withdrawals from Iraq and Afghanistan are complete, and units based out of Colorado Springs have returned, there is likely to be a small surge in the economy as troops are home, and their families return from living with THEIR relatives while loved ones are deployed.
That is exactly what Pueblo said in the 1960's about the steel mill as it was going strong. Then look what happened.
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