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As for ranches, I've had enough experience with them to understand at a point that the life of farming and ranching was not my forte. But also to see that those whose life it was in Colorado, on such small family enterprises, could indeed be termed the 'salt' of the earth. More practical, down-to-earth people are you never likely to meet. Conservative as well, which I largely am not, but in a simple way I do have communion with. If something needed done or fixed, which was basically every day, then their custom was to grab a pair of pliers or wrench and do it. Not look to the government, or unduly b*tch about it, but just get it done. Because there was surely another task waiting somewhere else. The people like this I knew were as honest as the day is long, could be counted on, with their word their bond.
If speaking of a changing Colorado, or that lost, this is one aspect. The farms or ranches gone in practical necessity to suburban development also see fewer people in this state with principles many today do not share.
Sounds nice but I think you're over-romanticizing these folks and lumping them all into a stereotype just as Hollywood has. They're humans and business people just like those in other pursuits. Most would never turn down a government program that benefitted them. Over the years, they've gladly accepted plenty of government largesse (homesteads, BLM permits, irrigation projects, pest management, subsidies, price controls, etc.). They're practical folks, like most of the rest of us, who adapt as their situations change. Some are politically conservative but some aren't. I really don't consider them or their form of livelihood any more or less virtuous than the population in general.
Sounds nice but I think you're over-romanticizing these folks and lumping them all into a stereotype just as Hollywood has. They're humans and business people just like those in other pursuits. Most would never turn down a government program that benefitted them. Over the years, they've gladly accepted plenty of government largesse (homesteads, BLM permits, irrigation projects, pest management, subsidies, price controls, etc.). They're practical folks, like most of the rest of us, who adapt as their situations change. Some are politically conservative but some aren't. I really don't consider them or their form of livelihood any more or less virtuous than the population in general.
You said a mouthful, in the above post and in the one where you said "What's amusing is the attempt to cast the ranchers as innocent victims of greedy developers." People should read this article in Time to get a better picture of the American farmer/rancher. They are the richest single demographic, thanks largely to the largesse of the Federal government.....there's a whole bunch of multi-millionaire farmers .... living in Manhattan. Bend over taxpayers.
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You said a mouthful, in the above post and in the one where you said "What's amusing is the attempt to cast the ranchers as innocent victims of greedy developers." People should read this article in Time to get a better picture of the American farmer/rancher. They are the richest single demographic, thanks largely to the largesse of the Federal government.....there's a whole bunch of multi-millionaire farmers .... living in Manhattan. Bend over taxpayers.
Yes, there are some ag people with their hands in the government pocket--just like many industries. Yes, there are millionaire ranchers and farmers, just like there are millionaire store owners, car dealers--you name it. But, fact is, there are whole segments of the agricultural industry that get very few government subsidies or incentives. There are also many, many farmers and ranchers that individually do not get government subsidies.
If there is one generalization that can be made about most ranchers and farmers, it is that they probably work harder, work longer hours, and must take greater business risks than most any other occupation. That is why there are not very many people who choose it as an occupation. I know all about that--I spent years in agriculture, and my operation never got any government subsidies, by the way. I wonder if you've ever really even set foot on a working farm or ranch--much less worked on one, managed one, or been financially dependent on one. If you had, I suspect that you would not hold the apparently negative view that you do of the American farmer and rancher. As the bumper sticker says, "You probably shouldn't complain about farmers and ranchers with your mouth full."
I think it would be great if the average American had to spend time working on a farm or ranch so they could see just how much effort it takes to produce their food. I think it would be great if they had to spend time working in a coal mine, on a gas well, in a refinery, etc. so they could see what it actually takes to get the energy that they waste so wantonly. People just seem to think that all that stuff that they take for granted just "happens." If they saw what it actually takes to make that "magic" happen, they might just have a different opinion about how "soft" some vocations have it.
I must be flawed because I don't consider the guy who produces the steak on my plate any more laudable or hard working than the doctor or nurse who treats my illness, the phone worker who makes my dial tone possible, the teacher who educates my kids, or the trucker who delivers said steak and everything else to my local stores. Please explain why you think those folks are lazy in comparison?
I must be flawed because I don't consider the guy who produces the steak on my plate any more laudable or hard working than the doctor or nurse who treats my illness, the phone worker who makes my dial tone possible, the teacher who educates my kids, or the trucker who delivers said steak and everything else to my local stores. Please explain why you think those folks are lazy in comparison?
Seriuously?? The guy who drives the truck is sitting down, the others are working indoors and out of the elements. The doctor, well he sees you for 15 mins and rushes you out the door to his next paying patient. They all receive benefits and regular pay.
Subsidies that are received mainly go to the owners of huge crops, the 5 biggest money making crops. Personally I think it should go to the small farmers if they are struggling. Cattle people see little of it, dairy even less if any. The ones who own tons of land and equipment I do not see why they even receive it. They know how to play the system.
If they keep shutting down dairies and farms then what is going to be delivered to the grocery store? Shall we import all of our food?
I doubt the ranchers are happy that possibly nasty, dirty, darn surely over medicated feedlots are taking away their business. Just like I know 2 dairy farmers who could no longer break even, sold their cows for very little- meaning less than market price- to the big greedy dairies, who then slaughtered the cows since they did not want them on their milk string. Wasteful and put those guys out of business after 30 plus years.
Since I have a regular job ( 2 actually) and a farm job I shall tell you the difference. I can never call in sick, I have to get out there in all the elements to feed, milk, vaccinate, neutering, disbudding, etc. I have to bring in hay, feed, if I have out lying water away from the heaters I have to get the ice out of the bucket, I have to clean poop, collect eggs, pull kids that are not sitting in the canal well. I have to keep small kids alive in bad weather, dig them out to get to water and hay in the snow, care for sick ones, sell ones I have grown attached to, and the list goes on and on and on. No vacation time, no benefits, no sick days, no oops the roads are bad so I think I will stay home today and use a personal day.
It is a hard job, time consuming, sometimes thankless, sometimes fun, always interesting, causes injuries, deal with predation, but you have to love doing it for what it is and not expect a big payoff. My farm is small enough to be a Hobby Farm, but if this economy keeps up I can grow almost all my food. They get rid of most of the farming and food has to be imported I will still be able to eat fresh food grow at my place.
Don't confuse the big greedy ones who know how to work the system with the rest of them who struggle to keep their places and make a profit.
Cava you are also the one who thought "homesteading" was outlawed, so you know little about farming and the things that are dealt with, it is all homesteading. Seeing more and more suburbs crop up is sad to me. We need to be able to grow our own food in our own country and feed our own people. Not sell it off or be forced to import it.
Is it possible that some of these 60,000 acres were large, underused parcels subdivided and sold off in pieces to hobby farmers like you? Would places like Melby Ranch be considered "lost to development" perhaps?
....Subsidies ... should go to the small farmers if they are struggling. ....
By your logic there should be subsides and handouts for those working poor, all those poor schleps working two minimum wage jobs if they are struggling to make ends meet.... No? Are they lazy louts who don't deserve any of our tax money? But by some twist of logic the old farmers and ranchers do? I'm not buying any of it.
And listen to Jazzlover,
Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzlover
... I think it would be great if the average American had to spend time working on a farm or ranch so they could see just how much effort it takes .....
he sounds more like Castro every day... comrade, you will work on the commune harvesting sugar cane, or no rum for you this year.
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he sounds more like Castro every day... comrade, you will work on the commune harvesting sugar cane, or no rum for you this year.
No, I just happen to think that if people got a little dose of reality of what goes into producing the things that they need for survival that it might be a beneficial experience for them. It might also lead them to appreciate those things a little bit more. After I spent some time underground in a coal mine, it makes me think about it a little bit differently when I flip on the light switch. After I worked in agriculture and was involved in the processing of ag products, it made me appreciate what it takes to produce the food I eat. Unfortunately, far too many Americans have become completely detached from the reality of producing things of real value.
No, I just happen to think that if people got a little dose of reality of what goes into producing the things that they need for survival that it might be a beneficial experience for them. It might also lead them to appreciate those things a little bit more. After I spent some time underground in a coal mine, it makes me think about it a little bit differently when I flip on the light switch. After I worked in agriculture and was involved in the processing of ag products, it made me appreciate what it takes to produce the food I eat. Unfortunately, far too many Americans have become completely detached from the reality of producing things of real value.
Agree, but when you said "HAD" to work, that made the statement imperious and domineering, like Comrade Fidel.
Funny that you mention coal mining. About 13-15 years ago I took a busload of railroad history fans into an anthracite mine in Ashland, PA. Long story made short, when I came out of that mine I had a lump in my throat after seeing the backbreaking work they did back, under dangerous conditions, during the Great Depression, for $5 a day. I never again doubted the worth of our labor unions who fought those awful conditions and I can assure one and all that Labor Day is one MY favorite holidays. Most people have little idea what it was like in the old days. During WW-II, my old man worked 80 hours a week in a railroad foundry, around hot furnaces and glowing hot billets of steel. Back in Baltimore, in the really old days (1800's), they made wooden clipper ships that were the envy of the ocean trades, and that era was referred to as the days of wood ships and iron men; indeed, our elders and ancestors were stern stuff.
But all the glory fades and changes. Farmers today do not walk behind an old swayback mule, they ride around in massive, air conditioned combines, many driven by wives or teen aged children. Cattle ranching has changed to feedlots, no cowboys up at the crack of dawn to round them up. A lot of dairy cattle now are trained to take themselves to the milking sheds, and, IIRC, some sheds are so advanced that the cows are milked without a human there to attach the tubes. Sic transit gloria.
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Last edited by Mike from back east; 01-31-2011 at 05:06 PM..
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