What has happened to Pueblo? (Denver, Colorado Springs: home, university, tax)

[Josseppie]

Originally Posted by NW Crow

How much does Pueblo compete with Fountain? I assume it has mainly compared itself to and competed with CoS but wonder how much it recognizes Fountain as its main rival in near term future. Does Fountain have the water, land suitable for much more industrial, warehouse, tech, etc. development? Is it a main reason that Pueblo springs ranch hasn't got rooted yet and may not for another decade or two?

Pueblo has nothing in common with Fountain. It is nothing but a suburb between Pueblo and Colorado Springs. It has no large downtown with highrises etc. Plus Pueblo is the sates back up to Denver something Fountain would never be considered for.

[Mike from back east]

[quote=Josseppie;35546501... Pueblo is the state's back up to Denver something Fountain would never be considered for.[/QUOTE]

What?

[iknowftbll]

Originally Posted by Josseppie

Pueblo has nothing in common with Fountain. It is nothing but a suburb between Pueblo and Colorado Springs. It has no large downtown with highrises etc. Plus Pueblo is the sates back up to Denver something Fountain would never be considered for.

A dubious claim if ever you've made one.

The state doesn't really have a "backup" to Denver. It's not like the state releases an annual depth chart like an NFL team and cities can jocky for positions on it. The state's economy is dominated by Denver and the surrounding area. The state's political cloute is defined by Denver.

Outside of Denver the closest thing you've got to a big city and default regional hub is Colorado Springs. A metro of 700,000 will have more clout than one of 165,000 unless the smaller one is a state capital. Even then it may not (New Mexico is similar to my hypothetical scenario, and I'd argue Albuquerque is the more influential city between it and Santa Fe.) Of course, it is almost pointless to argue because both Colorado Springs and Pueblo are and always will be in Denver's shadow.

That's not a bad thing, either. It's not a knock on either community. Denver is just a much larger and more dynamic city. Colorado Springs is a small city, Pueblo is a large town. Denver is a large city.

As for Crow's question about Fountain, I think you are looking past the possibilities. Fountain is not a self contained city like Pueblo, but it is a viable alternative if a developer believes there is more to be had in Fountain. Lack of a "downtown with highrises" is not something I'd realistically expect to see on a developer's "go/no-go" criteria.

Fountain's population growth is far out pacing that of Pueblo. In terms of raw numbers it's dead even, but considering Pueblo was at ~ 106,000 in 2010 and Fountain at 26,000, Fountain's growth rate is much higher. And since Fountain to Pueblo is not an unreasonable commute, it is probably a safe guess that some of those coming to Fountain are working in Pueblo and making the drive. With this in mind, I'd say Fountain absolutely is competition for Pueblo. I'm sure city leaders in Pueblo would prefer jobs held in Pueblo were held by Pueblo residents.

[wong21fr]

Originally Posted by iknowftbll

A dubious claim if ever you've made one.

The state doesn't really have a "backup" to Denver. It's not like the state releases an annual depth chart like an NFL team and cities can jocky for positions on it. The state's economy is dominated by Denver and the surrounding area. The state's political cloute is defined by Denver.

There's a dispatch center in Pueblo that has some radio equipment that is the secondary in case the system in Denver was to fail. That's the basis of Joss' claim that Pweeblo is Denver's "back-up".

I'm sure that some developers look at a trade-off between Fountain and Pueblo West when doing site evaluations. Fountain has it's proximity to Fort Carson and the Springs going for it, Pueblo West has more of a ranchette style setting that's appealing to retirees looking to capitalize on Pueblo's extremely low cost of living.

[iknowftbll]

Originally Posted by wong21fr

There's a dispatch center in Pueblo that has some radio equipment that is the secondary in case the system in Denver was to fail. That's the basis of Joss' claim that Pweeblo is Denver's "back-up".

It makes it an alternative site, a contingency plan in an emergency. I highly doubt this decision was made out of anything but strategic considerations. I'm sure it had nothing to do with regional influence. I've read too many of Joss's posts to believe this was what he was talking about. Perhaps I am wrong, but I believe Joss was making the claim that Pueblo is the state's second most influential city. He has before, so my thoughts are consistent with previous claims he's made.

[Mike from back east]

Originally Posted by iknowftbll

..., but I believe Joss was making the claim that Pueblo is the state's second most influential city. He has before, so my thoughts are consistent with previous claims he's made.

Another ridiculous claim...Boulder is a huge economic engine / tech incubator (with great high-income jobs), followed by Fort Collins, then there's the huge gov/military influence in COLO SPGS that ins't going away (though it may shrink a bit), not to mention the huge area of Aurora or the impact of Grand Junction on the western slope.

[wong21fr]

Originally Posted by iknowftbll

It makes it an alternative site, a contingency plan in an emergency. I highly doubt this decision was made out of anything but strategic considerations. I'm sure it had nothing to do with regional influence. I've read too many of Joss's posts to believe this was what he was talking about. Perhaps I am wrong, but I believe Joss was making the claim that Pueblo is the state's second most influential city. He has before, so my thoughts are consistent with previous claims he's made.

He also takes any kind of piece of information, usually horribly twisted and misinterpreted, that fits with his vision of Pueblo and it's importance. A radio center in Pueblo that is designated at the alternate site to the one in Denver fits that narrative. By his logic, Pueblo is now Denver's back-up.

[NW Crow]

For % pop. growth between 2010 and 2011, Fountain was the 3rd fastest growing city of the 25 biggest cities on Co front range (behind Denver and Broomfield), while Pueblo was last.

[Josseppie]

Originally Posted by iknowftbll

A dubious claim if ever you've made one.

The state doesn't really have a "backup" to Denver. It's not like the state releases an annual depth chart like an NFL team and cities can jocky for positions on it. The state's economy is dominated by Denver and the surrounding area. The state's political cloute is defined by Denver.

Outside of Denver the closest thing you've got to a big city and default regional hub is Colorado Springs. A metro of 700,000 will have more clout than one of 165,000 unless the smaller one is a state capital. Even then it may not (New Mexico is similar to my hypothetical scenario, and I'd argue Albuquerque is the more influential city between it and Santa Fe.) Of course, it is almost pointless to argue because both Colorado Springs and Pueblo are and always will be in Denver's shadow.

That's not a bad thing, either. It's not a knock on either community. Denver is just a much larger and more dynamic city. Colorado Springs is a small city, Pueblo is a large town. Denver is a large city.

Originally Posted by Mike from back east

What?

Its more about location then it is about population. In fact I have a cousin who works at the offices at the state hospital in Pueblo and what most people do not realize its more then just the state hospital but a lot of state organizations are there. She told me that its the largest concentration of state workers outside of Denver. Then Pueblo has agencies like the FBI and wildlife located here and we are seen as the economic and cultural hub of southern Colorado not because its Pueblo but simply because of our location.

In terms of what I said. When the federal government built the emergency center in Pueblo it officially became the back up to Denver. According to the Pueblo Chieftain "Thanks to its new standalone communications and radio system, the Pueblo location also will serve as a statewide backup emergency management center if the main facility in Denver goes down." That is why I now say Pueblo is the official back up if anything were to happen to Denver.

Originally Posted by iknowftbll

As for Crow's question about Fountain, I think you are looking past the possibilities. Fountain is not a self contained city like Pueblo, but it is a viable alternative if a developer believes there is more to be had in Fountain. Lack of a "downtown with highrises" is not something I'd realistically expect to see on a developer's "go/no-go" criteria.

Fountain's population growth is far out pacing that of Pueblo. In terms of raw numbers it's dead even, but considering Pueblo was at ~ 106,000 in 2010 and Fountain at 26,000, Fountain's growth rate is much higher. And since Fountain to Pueblo is not an unreasonable commute, it is probably a safe guess that some of those coming to Fountain are working in Pueblo and making the drive. With this in mind, I'd say Fountain absolutely is competition for Pueblo. I'm sure city leaders in Pueblo would prefer jobs held in Pueblo were held by Pueblo residents.

I would never compare a suburb to a principal city. Even ones that are larger.

[Let's Go Here]

Originally Posted by Josseppie

It just gets old when people who moved away from Pueblo come back for a few day visit drive around town and think they know what is going on. It happens all the time.

Joss, I left Pueblo 3 years ago and visit family on a regular basis. It's not like I come once a year for 2-3 days at a time. The community is going downhill and there's no way to sugarcoat it.

The bottom line is that the community is struggling mightily and decisions made by government officials in the past (i.e. the Walmart distribution center) have finally come back to haunt the community. Companies have cut jobs like a machete through the jungle and job creation is stagnant. An employer I worked for in Pueblo employed 70+ people before the economy tanked and they now employ only 20-25. Vestas has created a handful of jobs, but didn't provide the jolt that everyone thought the plant would provide when Vestas decided to establish.