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Old 07-09-2014, 04:35 PM
 
Location: Denver/Atlanta
6,083 posts, read 10,643,937 times
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Adams judge tosses Colorado gay marriage ban but stays ruling - The Denver Post

It's good to see Colorado becoming a more liberal state. Thoughts?
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Old 07-09-2014, 05:13 PM
 
Location: Type 0.73 Kardashev
11,110 posts, read 9,743,119 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mezter View Post
Adams judge tosses Colorado gay marriage ban but stays ruling - The Denver Post

It's good to see Colorado becoming a more liberal state. Thoughts?
While encouraging, the ruling is redundant - on June 25th, the Tenth Circuit Court of Appeals ruled in Kitchen v. Herbert, a case contesting Utah's gay marriage prohibition, that such bans were unconstitutional. And Colorado is in the Tenth Circuit, so that ruling applied to Colorado as well as Utah (and to Kansas, New Mexico, Oklahoma, and Wyoming).

And today Utah announced that they are appealing directly to the United States Supreme Court (rather than petitioning the Tenth for an en banc ruling, which likely would have been denied but which would have delayed the appeals process by several months).
Utah appealing gay-marriage case directly to Supreme Court | The Salt Lake Tribune

Nonetheless, the case was before this judge, and it is good to see him acting with respect to the case at hand and not worrying about other cases that might impact the plaintiffs before him.

Within the year, the United States Supreme Court will very likely resolve this issue once and for all by striking down all the remaining bans.
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Old 07-09-2014, 05:28 PM
 
Location: Virginia Beach, VA
11,157 posts, read 13,936,429 times
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A federal court ruling is not necessarily a reflection on how liberal or conservative a state is trending. It is much more a reflection of the beliefs of the court. Gay marriage is very much a libertarian issue more so than a liberal issue. Colorado is very much a libertarian state more so than a liberal state. The recalls over gun control are evidence of this. I'll take libertarian over liberal or conservative, though. Even as a conservative I recognize my values are not universal and where they conflict with someone else's values I believe laws should always default to the solution that preserves the greatest amount of personal liberty.
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Old 07-09-2014, 05:57 PM
 
Location: Pueblo - Colorado's Second City
12,259 posts, read 24,375,190 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Unsettomati View Post
While encouraging, the ruling is redundant - on June 25th, the Tenth Circuit Court of Appeals ruled in Kitchen v. Herbert, a case contesting Utah's gay marriage prohibition, that such bans were unconstitutional. And Colorado is in the Tenth Circuit, so that ruling applied to Colorado as well as Utah (and to Kansas, New Mexico, Oklahoma, and Wyoming).

And today Utah announced that they are appealing directly to the United States Supreme Court (rather than petitioning the Tenth for an en banc ruling, which likely would have been denied but which would have delayed the appeals process by several months).
Utah appealing gay-marriage case directly to Supreme Court | The Salt Lake Tribune

Nonetheless, the case was before this judge, and it is good to see him acting with respect to the case at hand and not worrying about other cases that might impact the plaintiffs before him.

Within the year, the United States Supreme Court will very likely resolve this issue once and for all by striking down all the remaining bans.
Well said. I agree 100%.
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Old 07-09-2014, 06:45 PM
 
Location: Denver metro
1,225 posts, read 3,218,678 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iknowftbll View Post
A federal court ruling is not necessarily a reflection on how liberal or conservative a state is trending. It is much more a reflection of the beliefs of the court. Gay marriage is very much a libertarian issue more so than a liberal issue. Colorado is very much a libertarian state more so than a liberal state. The recalls over gun control are evidence of this. I'll take libertarian over liberal or conservative, though. Even as a conservative I recognize my values are not universal and where they conflict with someone else's values I believe laws should always default to the solution that preserves the greatest amount of personal liberty.
You are correct that the court ruling does not necessarily reflect the political views of the state, but I have no doubt in my mind that if the vote were held today, Coloradoans would never enact a gay marriage ban. This is the most recent poll I could find (it was conducted in 2012 and indicated that 53% of Coloradoans supported gay marriage). I thought I read somewhere recently that indicated that 60% plus now support it. Regardless, this is great news for the state and all of its citizens. As a former resident who felt that the 2004 gay marriage ban vote was a slap in the face, this truly makes me happy.

Coloradans support gay marriage - Public Policy Polling
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Old 07-10-2014, 08:51 AM
 
Location: We_tside PNW (Columbia Gorge) / CO / SA TX / Thailand
34,611 posts, read 57,597,402 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mezter View Post
Adams judge tosses Colorado gay marriage ban but stays ruling - The Denver Post

It's good to see Colorado becoming a more liberal state. Thoughts?
oh ya... this is bound to be REALLY good for Colorado!
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Old 07-10-2014, 05:06 PM
 
Location: Pueblo - Colorado's Second City
12,259 posts, read 24,375,190 times
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Because of the Utah decision at least 3 Colorado counties will issue gay marriage licences. Boulder, Denver and Pueblo!


This is from the LA times:


Soon after a judge ruled that the Boulder County clerk could continue issuing marriage licenses to same-sex couples while the courts considered Colorado's ban on gay marriage, clerks in Denver and Pueblo counties said they would do the same.

The link: 2 Colorado counties join Boulder in issuing same-sex marriage licenses*-*Los Angeles Times


So gay marriage is now legal in Pueblo. Kind of surreal to be honest.

Last edited by Josseppie; 07-10-2014 at 05:15 PM..
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Old 07-10-2014, 09:11 PM
 
2,253 posts, read 6,964,661 times
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Wink If the Constitution

'Nancy Leong, a University of Denver law professor, said Hartman's ruling effectively allows government officials to sometimes disobey state law if they believe it violates the nation's founding principles.

"I read his opinion to say a certain level of what we may call civil disobedience is permissible under the US constitution," Leong said.'
[1]




The Supreme Court will ultimately decide this and, as anyone might know, their decisions are not always correct. But what might be overlooked here is that this decision goes well beyond the issue of gay marriage, with that to an extent incidental.

With the Denver Clerk and Recorder having since joined her, Boulder County Clerk and Recorder, Hillary Hall, based her decision to grant marriage licenses to gay couples on constitutional grounds. With the 10th US Circuit Court of Appeals agreeing.

Entirely true that Ms. Hall was on her own in this until Denver jumped on the bandwagon. As well that beyond the Front Range and in the more conservative corners of Colorado others are likely rolling their eyes, or gnashing teeth. Or, this more easily going over in a liberal enclave like Boulder. That, ultimately, all laws are but calcified public opinion. And in the US the trend is clear, with those opposing gay marriage fighting an increasingly uphill battle.

Nevertheless, the 10th Court granted Ms. Hall such latitude only due some legal basis. Her argument that she is but abiding by our US Constitution, the Colorado law forbidding such marriages violating both federal and state law.

The concept of Natural Law and the need for civil disobedience at times is entrenched in western tradition since Cicero and before. Indeed our Declaration of Independence is based upon the same concept, contravening British will and their own notion of what was legal. There has always been a philosophical and spiritual case to be made for following one's heart and highest sense of what is right, even if this can put one in direct confrontation with various powers that be, and possibly not at all prevailing—or promptly into a dungeon.

It might be remembered that many members of the civil rights movement in the 60's were confronted by police and other authorities who presumably had the law on their side in instances. Witness even the Supreme Court sanctioning slavery in their Dred Scott Decision of 1857. But what many viewed uppity behavior and unlawful civil disobedience led eventually to the new law of the land in the Civil Rights Act of 1964, that President Johnson signed.

What is notable here is that the US Constitution has been cited as the ultimate arbiter of all other law in this land, as should be, and the lower court sanctioning what is in effect civil disobedience towards that end.


1) 'Denver will follow Boulder on licenses as gay marriage gains momentum,' The Guardian
Denver will follow Boulder on licenses as gay marriage gains momentum | World news | theguardian.com
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Old 07-11-2014, 08:45 AM
 
3,490 posts, read 6,073,410 times
Reputation: 5421
Quote:
Originally Posted by Unsettomati View Post

Within the year, the United States Supreme Court will very likely resolve this issue once and for all by striking down all the remaining bans.
I'd like to think so, but our supreme court has been supreme stupid before.

Remember segregation?

Remember less than a year ago when they ruled in favor of Monsanto?

They ruled that farmers could be liable for seeds sewn in their field without their permission and against their expressed desires.

Seriously, the U.S. supreme court is a bunch of idiots that hate America and need to be put out to pasture.
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Old 07-11-2014, 09:00 AM
 
Location: Denver, Colorado U.S.A.
14,164 posts, read 27,117,163 times
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I'm already legally married at the federal level (we got married in California last year) which converts to a Civil Union in Colorado. So at least we don't have to do anything else. Eventually, I'm sure our CA marriage will be recognized as full marriage in CO.
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