Your thoughts on Colorado Care (living in, pricing, legally)

[freewest]

Originally Posted by asusual

I think you and I have different definitions of competition. To me, this is bullying.

This is the free market. Everyone has freewill. Businesses with more market share can negotiate better prices. If someone does not like the deal, they can just say "No". A single payer system is the real bullying. The government tells health providers what they are going to pay, and that's it. Hospitals, doctors, etc., will have to either accept the government's payment, or close shop. We already see this in MediCare, where doctors are dropping MediCare patients because they are not getting paid the real cost of the service. Hence, they are losing money. No one, absolutely no one gets out of bed in the morning to go lose money.

Originally Posted by asusual

The health insurers are not pulling out of Obamacare because it is a failure, but as a way to show that Obamacare has no choice but to accept their prices and they want more profits from the ACA than we have already given them.

Profits? What profits? Are you kidding? They would NOT pull out if they were making profits from ObamaCare. They are pulling out because they are losing money with ObamaCare patients. They are pulling out because the government is bullying them into accepting heavy losses with its nightmare web of rules, costs, transfers, reimbursments, etc. Half of the non-profit co-ops that ObamaCare set up are bankrupt. Most for-profit insurers are pulling out too.

Supporters of single payer systems only think about going into a health care provider, getting health care, and walking out. What happens after that is not their concern. Nothing is free. All goods and services must be paid for, no matter what it is.

[Mike from back east]

Originally Posted by freewest

... If someone does not like the deal, they can just say "No". A single payer system is the real bullying. The government tells health providers what they are going to pay, and that's it. Hospitals, doctors, etc., will have to either accept the government's payment, or close shop. We already see this in MediCare, where doctors are dropping MediCare patients because they are not getting paid the real cost of the service. ....

That also describes how Wal-Mart runs its business; it tells suppliers what they'll pay for X item and the providers of that item can take it or leave it. Homebuilders now tell sub-contractors what they're willing to pay for a given item, like a standard roofing job, drywall, etc, and the subs take it or leave it.

In health care (in 2007) I actually saw Kaiser tell its provider of medical services in Colorado Springs (CSHP) that they must accept a 10% across the board pay cut for 2008. There was no negotiation, Kaiser gave CSHP a take it or leave it ultimatum. CSHP notified us by letter of Kaiser's nonsense and I switched us from Kaiser to BC/BS, never looked back, and we kept our doctors at CSHP. BTW, CSHP did not knuckle under to Kaiser's bullying tactics; CSHP told Kaiser to take a hike.

I like that Colorado is trying to solve a serious issue and I hope they succeed. My favorite solution to all this is to have Medicare made our single payer national plan for all citizens, and if our contribution to Medicare needs to go up so that the docs and hospitals are fairly paid then that's fine with me. IMO there's so much waste in the current scheme that we'll end up paying less when all is said and done and national single payer reaches a mature state of existence.

[freewest]

Originally Posted by Mike from back east

In health care (in 2007) I actually saw Kaiser tell its provider of medical services in Colorado Springs (CSHP) that they must accept a 10% across the board pay cut for 2008. There was no negotiation, Kaiser gave CSHP a take it or leave it ultimatum. CSHP notified us by letter of Kaiser's nonsense and I switched us from Kaiser to BC/BS, never looked back, and we kept our doctors at CSHP. BTW, CSHP did not knuckle under to Kaiser's bullying tactics; CSHP told Kaiser to take a hike.

Who are you going to switch to in a single payer system, and the government tells providers of medical services they can take it or leave it? CSHP cannot tell the government to take a hike when the government is the only customer.

Filled out my ballot today. "No" on 69. Part of me wants it to pass (and the Fed permits it). Sometimes people should get exactly what they ask for.

[Mike from back east]

Originally Posted by freewest

Who are you going to switch to in a single payer system, and the government tells providers of medical services they can take it or leave it? CSHP cannot tell the government to take a hike when the government is the only customer....

I've no doubt that medical providers and the government will come to terms on how much is paid to them as part of implementation. The government will pay enough to get people cared for. I expect 'medigap' coverage will also be available as now done or people can pay the remaining portion not paid by medicare. I have medicare now and can go to any doc I want and I've had no trouble finding docs to see me, none have refused me.

[Arrby]

Heath care is to expensive, too difficult for people to understand, too complicated. Just like food and housing, our medical care should all be provided by the government.

Just like they do in prison.

[eatsDEN]

Originally Posted by Mike from back east

I have medicare now and can go to any doc I want and I've had no trouble finding docs to see me, none have refused me.

this does much to explain your position, for me at least....




I do agree that the system needs to be better optimized for many...
however, a move to mandated, centralized coverage isn't the way to go, from my perspective

[Katarina Witt]

I'd be fine with a "Medicare for All" system. That's not what this is, though. They keep saying they'll raise $25 billion to replace the $30 B in insurance premiums being paid now, and at the same time cover more. I don't see this happening. Provide hospitalization for all, and add an option for Major Medical with premiums.

[emm74]

Originally Posted by Katarina Witt

I'd be fine with a "Medicare for All" system. That's not what this is, though. They keep saying they'll raise $25 billion to replace the $30 B in insurance premiums being paid now, and at the same time cover more. I don't see this happening. Provide hospitalization for all, and add an option for Major Medical with premiums.

ding! ding! ding!

Over-promising, most likely leading to under-delivery.

And nothing guaranteed as to what services it would provide, which could apparently change at any time based on future decision on how to allocate resources.

Yes, the entire healthcare system in our country needs reform. But one state at a time isn't going to fix it.

[Count David]

There are other countries that accomplish this...no matter what the price of sugar is.

I presume the same occurs in the defense industry.....

[eatsDEN]

I have Canadian friends that absolutely abhor their medical scenario back "home,"
I have friends in other (communist run) countries that pay cash to private practitioners
rather than subject themselves to the care offered by their governments...


to paint the picture elsewhere as universally better in places that medicine
is 'socialized' or 'state run' seems quite disingenuous to me....