Moved from Southern California to Colorado 9 years ago

[smdensbcs]

Originally Posted by Phil P

For every Antifa rally, you have Proud Boys showing up too. I dislike both groups, but I'm glad they cancel out.

Sorry to cherry-pick one of your comments and go a bit off topic but I just read a 350 page book on the interplay between ever-present far-right hate groups all over the industrialized world going back to the 1920's and the "antifa" response that sometimes, not always, arises in response.


The basic concept here is almost exactly like the approach I take to the weeds in my unfortunately large front yard. I don't go out and weed for 3 hours on a weekend morning unless there are weeds growing. If weeds are growing, then if I can rally myself to deal with them I go out and address the problem. If weeds are not growing (like in winter) I don't go out and pull them because there's no problem. Using the allegory above, the right-wing white-supremacy violent hate groups (Proud Boys) are like the weeds that tend to grow of their own accord and the "antifa" response that sometimes, not always, arises in response is the weed-puller (me) who sometimes can rally in response. It's a constant battle but only when the weeds exist. If weeds never existed I would never go out and pull weeds. If right-wing white-supremacy violent hate groups never formed to cause their let's call it "mischief" (whether in Germany/Spain 1920's or within weeks of WWII ending all over Britain or anywhere else) then "antifa" groups would never form in response.


Your comment presumes there's such a thing as an "Antifa rally" to which Proud Boys show up in response when in fact it is and has always been the exact other way around. The right-wing white-supremacy violent hate groups organize and form (like weeds growing in my yard they just somehow show up everywhere the difference being the violent hate groups will take over and kill/maim vulnerable people if not pulled/called-out early on, the ultimate and logical-extension example being the Holocaust, the Holy Grail of all right-wing white-supremacy violent hate groups. So, the "Antifa" folks don't hold rallies, they show up to break up rally's organized by the violent hate groups when governments are too scared or chicken-%$&%$ to do anything about it, like most governments are.


We can all say we don't like either group but let's be clear between the instigators (the weeds) and the responders (those who get off their schneid and try to pull the weeds before they overrun the entire garden and kill everything beautiful, which they are very much intent on doing).


OK, now that's out of my system, I'd like to thank the OP for a generally positive post.


To possibly add something useful to the actual topic, I spent my first 26 years in Coastal California and left for Colorado 3 days after 8+ years at UC subsidized college and professional schools, and then the past 20 years in Colorado. I have been able to accomplish a quality of life in Colorado on so many different levels I am 100% confident would not have been available to me in Coastal California, and I was not willing to move to Barstow or Bakersfield or Modesto to access even marginally affordable housing. My friends who remained in Coastal California who did not inherit money are still living in small barely-affordable rental apartments and most never got married and those who did could not afford to both pay rent and have children. Colorado is more expensive than Michigan or small-town wherever but the cost-of-living ratio to the quality-of-life ratio cannot be matched. Certainly not by that ratio in Coastal California, which has been so out of whack for the past 25+ years as to be comical. I and hopefully other CA to CO transplants have tried to be respectful economic refugees, being hopefully more of a net positive to our new community and region than net negative. I married a great Colorado so called "native" gal a few years after I arrived (though she has not a drop of real "native" American blood) and am raising CO "native" kids and staying out of trouble as best I can, pulling weeds and trying to steer clear of Proud Boys and secretly thankful others will stand up to such hate and violence so wimps like me don't have to.

[RuggedAlpha]

Originally Posted by smdensbcs

To possibly add something useful to the actual topic, I spent my first 26 years in Coastal California and left for Colorado 3 days after 8+ years at UC subsidized college and professional schools, and then the past 20 years in Colorado. I have been able to accomplish a quality of life in Colorado on so many different levels I am 100% confident would not have been available to me in Coastal California, and I was not willing to move to Barstow or Bakersfield or Modesto to access even marginally affordable housing. My friends who remained in Coastal California who did not inherit money are still living in small barely-affordable rental apartments and most never got married and those who did could not afford to both pay rent and have children. Colorado is more expensive than Michigan or small-town wherever but the cost-of-living ratio to the quality-of-life ratio cannot be matched. Certainly not by that ratio in Coastal California, which has been so out of whack for the past 25+ years as to be comical. I and hopefully other CA to CO transplants have tried to be respectful economic refugees, being hopefully more of a net positive to our new community and region than net negative. I married a great Colorado so called "native" gal a few years after I arrived (though she has not a drop of real "native" American blood) and am raising CO "native" kids and staying out of trouble as best I can, pulling weeds and trying to steer clear of Proud Boys and secretly thankful others will stand up to such hate and violence so wimps like me don't have to.

Lol Why is the choice always between an expensive coastal city or a poor town like Barstow? There are lots of great towns in California that are still affordable, yet have access to both beach & mountains. Sure it might be a little drive to get to those places, but it's the same in Colorado. Most people don't live in the Rockies, they have to drive to get there and that's fine.

Pound-per-Pound, California offers a much higher quality of life. But that's not to say that CO isn't great. But dude, where else are you going to get public access to the desert, mountains, beaches, & forests along with diverse cuisine & food scene, world-class theme parks, 3 major cities, etc.

Again, Colorado is great. But no need to downplay CA's quality of life perks.

[Phil P]

Originally Posted by smdensbcs

Sorry to cherry-pick one of your comments and go a bit off topic but I just read a 350 page book on the interplay between ever-present far-right hate groups all over the industrialized world going back to the 1920's and the "antifa" response that sometimes, not always, arises in response.


The basic concept here is almost exactly like the approach I take to the weeds in my unfortunately large front yard. I don't go out and weed for 3 hours on a weekend morning unless there are weeds growing. If weeds are growing, then if I can rally myself to deal with them I go out and address the problem. If weeds are not growing (like in winter) I don't go out and pull them because there's no problem. Using the allegory above, the right-wing white-supremacy violent hate groups (Proud Boys) are like the weeds that tend to grow of their own accord and the "antifa" response that sometimes, not always, arises in response is the weed-puller (me) who sometimes can rally in response. It's a constant battle but only when the weeds exist. If weeds never existed I would never go out and pull weeds. If right-wing white-supremacy violent hate groups never formed to cause their let's call it "mischief" (whether in Germany/Spain 1920's or within weeks of WWII ending all over Britain or anywhere else) then "antifa" groups would never form in response.


Your comment presumes there's such a thing as an "Antifa rally" to which Proud Boys show up in response when in fact it is and has always been the exact other way around. The right-wing white-supremacy violent hate groups organize and form (like weeds growing in my yard they just somehow show up everywhere the difference being the violent hate groups will take over and kill/maim vulnerable people if not pulled/called-out early on, the ultimate and logical-extension example being the Holocaust, the Holy Grail of all right-wing white-supremacy violent hate groups. So, the "Antifa" folks don't hold rallies, they show up to break up rally's organized by the violent hate groups when governments are too scared or chicken-%$&%$ to do anything about it, like most governments are.


We can all say we don't like either group but let's be clear between the instigators (the weeds) and the responders (those who get off their schneid and try to pull the weeds before they overrun the entire garden and kill everything beautiful, which they are very much intent on doing).

Interesting. I had a Proud Boy come up to my parents house and explain himself, apparently because Antifa was spreading signs saying this dude was a white supremacist. It was weird, he explained that he was NOT a supremacist, which I guess I believe cause why would you deny it so much if you were. The way he made it sound, he was only there to protect against Antifa and make sure that the right of speech was upheld. He didn't impress me though.

The goofy thing is that is seems they are so set on combating each other that they seemed to lose sight of what they were really trying to convey. Consequently, the aggresive attitudes of them both makes each of them look bad to the more moderate public. I do believe that the alt right has more sympathetic leanings, especially historically, than the alt left though, as you have said.

[smdensbcs]

Originally Posted by Phil P

I do believe that the alt right has more sympathetic leanings, especially historically, than the alt left though, as you have said.

Not sure I'm comprehending this. I did not say the "alt right" is more sympathetic than the "alt left." I am basically convinced the "alt right" is comprised of racist, self-delusional, opportunistic fundamentalist types who like Nazi's everywhere pretend to be patriotic but in reality are little more than sub-human monsters. I don't believe there is any such thing as the "alt-left" outside right-wing radio blowhards. There are and have sometimes in some places been individuals brave enough to stand up to violent racist cowards. These are the folks currently branded "alt left" by the greedy right-wing radio opportunists, of which there are dozens.

[smdensbcs]

Originally Posted by RuggedAlpha

Pound-per-Pound, California offers a much higher quality of life.

We'll agree to disagree. Having lived there 25+ years I'm keenly aware that California consists of Santa Barbara's and Barstow's, and precious little middle-ground in between. The quality of life vs. cost of living quotient in CA went negative in the mid to late 1970's and has been going nowhere but down in the decades since. In parts, not all, of Colorado it is still positive.

[BBMW]

Not nearly as easy as moving to CO. They can stop you coming if they don't want you.

Originally Posted by Vision67

If you want Colorado with beaches...

Move to the South Island of New Zealand.

[Phil P]

Originally Posted by smdensbcs

Not sure I'm comprehending this. I did not say the "alt right" is more sympathetic than the "alt left." I am basically convinced the "alt right" is comprised of racist, self-delusional, opportunistic fundamentalist types who like Nazi's everywhere pretend to be patriotic but in reality are little more than sub-human monsters. I don't believe there is any such thing as the "alt-left" outside right-wing radio blowhards. There are and have sometimes in some places been individuals brave enough to stand up to violent racist cowards. These are the folks currently branded "alt left" by the greedy right-wing radio opportunists, of which there are dozens.

Oh no, I was saying that historically the alt right had more influence in positions of power. Not thay they were somehow more caring people.