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Old 10-01-2006, 04:47 PM
Location: in the southwest
13,394 posts, read 44,470,302 times
Reputation: 13568


Colorado Native has a point.
I lived in Colorado (on and off, but more on) from Aug 1969 until Oct 2005.
It's changed.
The facts are that people are moving in; they have since the 70's, when Colorado Native bumperstickers originated. Growth has been happening and will continue to happen. Gov. Lamm, back in the 70's, stopped the Olympics from coming to Colorado, but not the influx of new people.
Yes the big negative attitude against Texans and Californians is for real though perhaps not quite as strident as some would have you believe.
What has been happening worldwide (not just in the beautiful state of Colorado) is that cities and towns are becoming destination places, elite boutique spots for tourism and leisure rather than day-to-day living. The affluent will buy a home but not necessarily live there year-round. They have no interest in roots.
The service industry will have a marginal existance nearby. The middle class will be squeezed out.
Until and unless there is legislation to promote sustainable living: mundane stuff such as small business, child care, affordable housing and basic infrastructure, the fading out of the middle class will continue. It's not just in Colorado, it's global.
We moved from Denver to a small town in northwest Florida where it's the same situation: resort homes supercede affordable housing, property taxes go up, regular people such as teachers or firefighters can't afford to live in the town where their jobs are.
I am not a socialist. But even though the market correction helped cost my husband his job, I am okay with that. It needed to happen.
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Old 10-02-2006, 12:02 AM
827 posts, read 5,020,036 times
Reputation: 533
Thanks AustinTraveler for your nice post!

Sillygal, also thanks to you for your kind post too! No I didn't get to see Oprah but I heard about it from my brother. I think the friend of Oprah and the restaurant in Durango is Paul Gelose, who was Oprah’s personal chef, at the Palace Restaurant. Durango is a beautiful place. I have noticed more stars going to Durango, which isn't far from Telluride.

Mike from back east, thanks for two thumbs up and I also give you two thumbs up for your excellent coverage of Colorado Springs! Colorado Springs is another beautiful place to live and I share your enthusiasm about Colorado.

I have thought about the situation concerning people moving into Colorado which is causing some people to be angry about the costs going up. I really believe that smart growth, not sprawl, but planned growth is good for Colorado. It actually brings prices down. For instance, the areas where it costs over 1 million dollars to own a home are Aspen, Vail and Telluride and those same towns are towns who restrict growth so much that a house that should cost 250,000 goes for over 1 million. If you allow more homes, this stabilizes the area and home prices go down. If you want to blame somebody, blame the elitists, who are trying to keep people out of Colorado. This causes homes to be in high demand, since there aren't new ones to buy and that means it costs more money to buy the few homes for sale.

I am not saying there should be uncontrolled growth but to totally restrict anyone else to come to Colorado will not help anyone. Jobs depend on the local economy. More people equals more companies moving in and that brings better jobs. More people equals more stores which equals more jobs. If the Texans and Californians didn't come, then restaurants would shut down and there wouldn't be many jobs. Everyone from carpenters to road crews depend on growth. There is a saying that Texans and Californians are what keep Colorado green. People are moving to Colorado, it is just a fact of life; but another fact is the USA in general is getting crowded, not just Colorado. We gain millions more people legally and illegally every year.

People spilled their blood to make America a free place so we can have the right to live anywhere we want to live in America. To restrict people from coming into a city is what Germany did back before World War II. They wanted to tell people who could live where and even were elitists enough to decide who should live or die. We are not that kind of country. Also, none of us can claim the word native, as the Native Americans were here before us and we all came in anyway. To say some can live in an area and others not, is not logical or practical. The Native Americans have learned to live with it and we have to as well. They have actually turned it around for their good by having casinos and tourism, to give wealth to their people from the people coming in. Colorado and Durango are going to grow a lot, people will either have to adjust or do what others on these forums are doing, move.

Last edited by Crackerjack; 10-02-2006 at 12:19 AM..
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Old 10-02-2006, 07:30 AM
502 posts, read 1,052,388 times
Reputation: 329
Default Oh my God...

Crackerjack, buddy, that just hurts a person's soul...

Just going down the list:
The way to fix growth issues is for...more people to move in. sigh. There's PLENTY of new construction going on here. Every available poece of ground is being "developed." (A word I despise for its homocentric arrogance) A Developer's idea of Affordable Housing is anything under $350,000. You were apparently just here. Did you notice anything like this?

The secret to fixing low incomes is to make sure that the suburbanization of an area reaches critical mass. MORE STARBUCKS! C'mon. The people that live here and work for peanuts here are choosing to avoid such things, working for peanuts as a trade off for a deeper sense of fulfillment and health than a healthy paycheck. We seek to avoid Corporate America, not rut with it...

Texans and Californians, we'll call them tourists here, are what keep Colorado green... The Motorhomes, the ATV trains screaming through the forests, the multi-million dollar empty home perching on the skyline like a vulturous monolith shrine to the almighty dollar...

You're saying, in effect, that my grandpa suffered horribly (and consequently everyone else around him, too) from PTSD only to lose his Veteran's benefits and finally kill himself so that we could have Urban Sprawl. And how... what's the word...Typical? Horrific? Misinformed? Let's give the benefit of the doubt and use the word tragic here to describe the outrageous comparison to the plight of Native Americans... Good lord, man, they "have actually turned it around for their good by having casinos and tourism, to give wealth to their people from the people coming in." Do you REALLY think that casinos and some cash flow are the best possible result for them? A casino makes it ok that Manifest Destiny (shudder) decimated, slaughtered, deplaced and destroyed every tribe in the country? And to pull that Nazi crap... wow. Typical.

And the (for the sake of irony) Final Solution... "if you don't like it move...."

Can't wait for your fine addition to our community.

Responsible growth is obviously, obviously needed. What you're advocating, though, is for all of this country to just be one big "suburban paradise," town connecting to town via strip mall and cineplex. This is why Coloradans don't like newbies so much. This is arguably the most beautiful state in the country and so many that move in simply want to ruin this. The whole attitude that if there's a beautiful mountain we should, for the benefit of the community at large, build a resort on it.

And here you come...
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Old 10-02-2006, 02:54 PM
502 posts, read 1,052,388 times
Reputation: 329
A well-timed article for this discussion:

Durango Herald

By John Peel

Did Durango already go ‘faux’?
October 2, 2006
First off, this repugnant thought:

Were I in my 20s, looking to relocate in a hip but little-known mountain town, as I did 16 years ago, I very much doubt I would pick Durango. Moderator cut: copyright issues - please provide the links instead

Last edited by Marka; 10-03-2006 at 03:30 AM.. Reason: copyright issues
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Old 10-02-2006, 03:19 PM
Location: in the southwest
13,394 posts, read 44,470,302 times
Reputation: 13568
Colorado Native
The link said file not found.

We moved away at least partly because the Denver we left had changed in 25 years.
However, the Denver we knew certainly was not the same one my mom, a Colorado native, knew when she was young.

Colorado Native has a point. Obviously there are environmental and social issues if/when any place becomes popular and greedy developers run rampant building their mcmansions.
That people are coming to Colorado certainly is inevitable (and on-going).
The reality for Durango is that America is a capitalistic society.
The assumption should be that you can and will legislate zoning which takes into consideration small businesses, schools, childcare and affordable housing so that the middle class will not be squeezed out as they have been in so many other elite, boutiquey cities and towns.
I hope Durango and its surroundings will be able to retain its character.
It is indeed beautiful--as is all of Colorado.
Ugh--casinos. Can't stand 'em.
Reservations were not exactly such a swell idea, either.
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Old 10-02-2006, 03:26 PM
75 posts, read 258,036 times
Reputation: 41
Hi there Colorado Native,

Can't access the article. Can you post it? Thanks.
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Old 10-03-2006, 01:17 AM
827 posts, read 5,020,036 times
Reputation: 533
Colorado native, I can understand your anger about uncontrolled growth. I am not for that. But you seem to be against any kind of growth. You really have expressed your hate for wealthy people, Texans and Californians. You criticized the way Texans talk. You are one angry person.
Can't wait for your fine addition to our community. And here you come...
Thanks for telling me that I will not be a good neighbor. You are not a very friendly person, that is obvious. I don't especially care to be living in a city with such an angry person, but you aren't keeping me from Durango.

Yes, Durango is going to grow so the best thing to do is plan for controlled growth. You mentioned the towns Aspen and Telluride. It is because these town prohibit growth to the max that they are faux towns. The middle class don't have average homes to live in. Is that want you want Durango to be, a super rich town with no middle class? Well if you forbid any growth, you are going to get rich people buying all the available homes and living there part time and jacking costs way up. The middle class will have to go to other towns nearby and the roads will be heavy traffic areas with commuters coming into Durango to work. This causes a lot of sprawl. I know your opinion and I respect it, but it isn't mine and angry buddy, be happy, lighten up!

Last edited by Crackerjack; 10-03-2006 at 01:47 AM..
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Old 10-03-2006, 02:10 PM
19 posts, read 97,695 times
Reputation: 32
Yea colorado Native does have a point. I am a 20 something life long in the land of 10,000 lakes and we have seen the lakes close to the city go from fishermen on small motor or no motor fishing boats to high powered speed boats and jet skis. It is also getting more difficult to get guys in my age group to head out for a day of fishing 'cause fishing is too "slow". And now many of the lakes farther to the north are being bought up by the developers for big money devolopment.

You mentioning the ATV drivers has me equating this with these highpowered speadboats . But I also do sort of fancy the idea of being in a hip mountain town and maybe taking a 4WD out into the wilds and camp out on just a few occasions per year.
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Old 10-03-2006, 03:23 PM
502 posts, read 1,052,388 times
Reputation: 329
Default anger

Yeah, I'm angry (see: righteously indignant). Not really a news flash there. I get fired up when I'm passionate about something. Anger, I think, is better than naivete, though.

Take the red pill, Crackerjack.

Angry... You will be too after a few months here. It happens to us all. We all want the gate closed behind us. There is such a high possibility of being truly happy somewhere, and then the very folks you seek to avoid in order to experience that happiness surround you and take over and ruin the beauty of where you are. It's inevitable, but you gotta fight it, right? Most of the ruination of the area comes from blind ignorance and the inability to empathize. To force people to see is a noble mission, I think.

ahhh, the noble rant... irony is beautiful, too.

You don't want to live in a city with such an angry person? Good luck. I'm one of many, and not remotely as vocal as many many others.

Do I want Durango to be a faux town...?

Did you really ask that?

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Old 10-03-2006, 03:26 PM
502 posts, read 1,052,388 times
Reputation: 329
EricBrewer... I've seen those lakes, and I sympathize. Sorry man.

And sure, take your 4wd out in the mountains... just stay on the roads. Better yet, park at a trailhead and hike in. REALLY experience it.
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