Two Jobs for Every Unemployed Person in Colorado (Idaho Springs, Georgetown: home, employment)

[Therblig]

I think the mass move from city/suburbs to small towns is a one-time, or at least extremely rare blip. A perfect storm of pent-up intent (thousands who, practically speaking, could remote from a one-horse town somewhere) and pressure/opportunity (the pandemic).

It will continue, but in the end there are only so many people who want to do big city jobs from a small town somewhere.

And, of course, "small towns" putting in several thousand condo/apartments makes them less desirable as a 21st century worklife destination, so it becomes self-balancing.

Look for a slower, less defined reverse exodus over the next few years. Living in a small town 40 miles from a Home Depot is not what big city surburbanites imagine it to be. Let's start with that political divide...

[Phil P]

Originally Posted by bluescreen73

Could you imagine the hand-wringing if a bunch of college-educated liberals and moderates moved to a town like Craig, and it affected voting patterns to the point where locals couldn't just trot out some yokel on team R with a well-known last name and expect to either run unopposed or win 90-10? They'd lose their s*&t.

Haha, well that's on the mover to make sure that where they are going matches who they are. There's some issues with people trying to change the way things are once they move in, but I think that's the most annoying people being highlighted. In general, more political mixing could be a good thing, get people exposed to different viewpoints and less echo chamber.

Originally Posted by interloper1138

This is absolutely already happening, both here in Colorado and throughout the Mountain West. That's why towns like Salida have the asinine housing prices that they do and their teachers and cops are living in campers in the National Forest or in shared housing with 6 other adults. Our economy is a zero-sum game. If someone is winning, it's because someone else is losing. You can't have it both ways.

If we really wanted to tackle housing, we'd do something about the asinine number of 2nd (or 4th or 5th) homes. WFHers are the latest piece of the housing price / shortage problem, but they are most definitely not the originators of the problem.

WFHs eat up housing, but they spend most all of their income (which is often above median) in the local economy and occupy the unit most of the year. Short term rentals bring people spending their income, but are occupied only part of the days in the calendar year and tourists don't necessarily improve the social fabric because no one integrates in a weekend. Finally 2nd homers only spend income in the local economy a couple weeks or months out of the year and leave the unit vacant for the rest of the year - environment wise they use a lot of carbon traveling between residences and heating / furnishing a mostly unoccupied unit.

Everyone agrees we need more housing (nationwide, it's not just CO), but if you want to attack someone in the meantime, start with 2nd homers, then short term rentals, then the work from homers. I'd fully support additional taxes on non primary residences.

[Phil P]

Originally Posted by Therblig

I think the mass move from city/suburbs to small towns is a one-time, or at least extremely rare blip. A perfect storm of pent-up intent (thousands who, practically speaking, could remote from a one-horse town somewhere) and pressure/opportunity (the pandemic).

It will continue, but in the end there are only so many people who want to do big city jobs from a small town somewhere.

And, of course, "small towns" putting in several thousand condo/apartments makes them less desirable as a 21st century worklife destination, so it becomes self-balancing.

Look for a slower, less defined reverse exodus over the next few years. Living in a small town 40 miles from a Home Depot is not what big city surburbanites imagine it to be. Let's start with that political divide...

I'd disagree. Virtually every small town across the US, from Brainerd MN to Junction City KS has seen an uptick in people moving in who area who weren't able to before. Who needs Home Depot when there's Amazon? Digitization has improved small town living much much faster than it's improved city / suburb living.

[Therblig]

Originally Posted by Phil P

I'd disagree. Virtually every small town across the US, from Brainerd MN to Junction City KS has seen an uptick in people moving in who area who weren't able to before. Who needs Home Depot when there's Amazon? Digitization has improved small town living much much faster than it's improved city / suburb living.

Have you lived in a small town with, for example, only one or two restaurants (one closed half the time), an extremely expensive Ace Hardware, one grocery store, very slim entertainment options and almost no more "general" stores (clothing, shoe, auto parts, etc.)? I have, for six years.

It was a lovely place. But having to drive double-digit miles for nearly everything except the town's scant offerings got a little wearing after a while... and I am a fairly patient person who plans things like Home Depot runs or evenings out. And Amazon brings many things, but not 2x4s and sheet goods. I'll reiterate that I think many suburbanites who think it will be paradise will be finding ways to go back, or letting circumstances move them back to a denser locale in fairly short time.

There will be some permanent shift, of the sector who do "digitized" jobs and really want/like small town life. But I think the tide of the last few years will largely ebb back out in a few more.

There are many reasons small towns have steadily shrunk in the last few decades. Employment is only one factor.

[GraniteStater]

Originally Posted by Phil P

I'd disagree. Virtually every small town across the US, from Brainerd MN to Junction City KS has seen an uptick in people moving in who area who weren't able to before. Who needs Home Depot when there's Amazon? Digitization has improved small town living much much faster than it's improved city / suburb living.

LOL, that's a really odd pairing to use as Brainerd is part of a high end lakes region in central MN and has nothing in common with Junction City which is adjacent to a massive military facility that is Fort Riley. I think that yes, the total percentage of people that were able to move to smaller cities and rural areas have already done so over the past several years. Very few people are going to move to a random farm belt town of less than 1000 people as that is a much more intense level of rural that only a low percentage of Americans have direct experiences with living in.

[digitalUID]

Originally Posted by Therblig

very slim entertainment options

This would be the death knell for me. There's only so much mountain biking, camping, or hiking one can do before getting the itch for social interaction and entertainment not found on a device. Unless you're a recluse, I don't know how people would be able to endure this over a long period of time. It'd have to be a town within 30 miles of a major metroplex. Maybe Georgetown or Idaho Springs.

[interloper1138]

Originally Posted by digitalUID

This would be the death knell for me. There's only so much mountain biking, camping, or hiking one can do before getting the itch for social interaction and entertainment not found on a device. Unless you're a recluse, I don't know how people would be able to endure this over a long period of time. It'd have to be a town within 30 miles of a major metroplex. Maybe Georgetown or Idaho Springs.

I think you're probably right about this for most people, but this cracks me up. I'll take a quiet sunset on an unnamed hill in a forgotten part of the SLV watching the wild horses 1000 times before I'll take overpriced, overcrowded, overstimulating 'entertainment' in the city.

But then again, I was raised in the country... Consider me a loud and proud digital nomad 'recluse'.

[digitalUID]

Originally Posted by interloper1138

I think you're probably right about this for most people, but this cracks me up. I'll take a quiet sunset on an unnamed hill in a forgotten part of the SLV watching the wild horses 1000 times before I'll take overpriced, overcrowded, overstimulating 'entertainment' in the city.

But then again, I was raised in the country... Consider me a loud and proud digital nomad 'recluse'.

I don't understand some people's need to put things down because they don't enjoy it.

It's not overpriced if you can afford it. It's not overcrowded if you enjoy being around others. And I don't really understand the overstimulation part unless maybe you're on the autism spectrum? If something brings joy to someone else but not you, there's no need to make them feel like they are lesser by describing their activities negatively.

[interloper1138]

Originally Posted by digitalUID

I don't understand some people's need to put things down because they don't enjoy it.

It's not overpriced if you can afford it. It's not overcrowded if you enjoy being around others. And I don't really understand the overstimulation part unless maybe you're on the autism spectrum? If something brings joy to someone else but not you, there's no need to make them feel like they are lesser by describing their activities negatively.

I wasn't putting anyone's interests down anymore than you were by saying that people that like a quieter lifestyle must be recluses or on the autism spectrum. To each their own. You do you.

[digitalUID]

Originally Posted by interloper1138

I wasn't putting anyone's interests down anymore than you were by saying that people that like a quieter lifestyle must be recluses or on the autism spectrum. To each their own. You do you.

Reclusive is an adjective that describes people who enjoy solitary environments. I wasn't using it pejoratively.

And I genuinely didn't understand your comment about overstimulation. The first thing that popped into my mind is a long time friend, who is on the spectrum. When he becomes overstimulated by loud noise or what have you, he becomes annoyed and frustrated easily. I think that most people are not overstimulated by a bar, concert, or sporting event. Being on the spectrum is not a negative attribute, at least in my opinion. In fact, more people should be aware of that community in general and have empathy towards them.