SF Bay Area to Vail (Denver, Fort Collins: real estate, condo, mortgage)

[Chelle-Angel]

Considering relocating from SF Bay Area to Vail. Housing prices are great in comparison but wondering if the temps will be too cold. Looking forward to the snow sports but other than that thinking that the weather may result in too much time indoors?

I spend a fair amount of time outdoors, and am neurotic about most things Californians fuss about: air/water quality, lots of organic food, access to outdoor activities, etc. I'll miss the ocean but thinking that I can come to Cali for mini vacations. Won't miss the traffic

In any event, feel free to share your thoughts.
Much appreciated.

[Sockeye]

Well, Vail has to be one of the most wholesome places in the world to live. Terrific public schools, affordable housing, and a close knit community minded populace come to mind first. If you want a real and rustic Colorado experience, Vail is the place! Oh, the winters are long-generally from November thru April and sometimes May, and the summers short-from July to September. The one real convenience? I70 runs right about thru the middle of it.

[Chelle-Angel]

Thanks for the prompt post. Wholesome sounds good; rustic only if there is easy access to amenities like grocery stores or markets with quality produce, and not too far removed from a social scene - (not bars/clubs) but on occasion I do like to grab the occasional lunch and a latte at a coffee shop etc.

I am a bit "high-maintenance" but with a love for the outdoors and outdoor activities. My main priorities are year-round activities, a good safe environment for a single woman, and of course clean air/water. My job can be somewhat stressful so I like my surroundings to be something of a haven; I find nice scenery helps so those Colorado mountains are calling. . .

I just utilized the Search feature and found a decent number of posts on this subject; I think I've got the gist. But if you have something you'd like to share, suggestions and words of wisdom are always welcome.

ok off to start prepping for tomorrow's feast.
Happy Thanksgiving 08!

[sunsprit]

Chelle-Angel ... I think you may have missed the sarcasm of the first response here.

IMO, Vail doesn't have most of the amenities you're used to having as a "high maintenance" single person acclimated to the social and shopping scene of a big city such as San Francisco.

What Vail does have is great access to the outdoors in a 4 season high altitude mountain climate zone. It's definitely cold during the winters, and spring/fall overnight temps (as soon as the sun goes down) can be cold. In my experience ...much as I like to ski ... summers are the best time of the year in Vail. Spring "mud season" is a low point for me.

"Easy access" to your grocery shopping is down valley from Vail or in West Vail. I'd say it all depends upon what you consider "easy" ... it's not like it's right on your doorstep in Vail, although prices are now competitive with the front range grocery shopping. Quality produce depends a lot upon what you consider to be "quality" ... consider that there's little grown in the region, it's all trucked in with the exception of some items like Colorado western slope peaches in season. Your main sources are either Albertson's or Wal-Mart, the little market in town is a joke ... targeted for tourists and very pricey.

[motoracer51]

I agree with sunsprit pretty much.

What she didn't mention, which happens often enough, is that when the bad weather (snow storms) roll through, it's isn't unusual for the Colorado Dept. Of Transportation CDOT to SHUT DOWN the entire I70, thus cutting you off to civilization. This happens a bunch of times per year, as well as the occasional wreck.

Night temps close to or even below 0 will be the norm for the winter.

If I had the money, I'd be living where you are, in California, and it seems like CA is doing the things that you seem to prefer; movements to keep the environment and water clean. Don't forget, we have the evil oil companies here in Colorado ruining the air and water. Why would you want to come here knowing that?

[wanneroo]

Originally Posted by Sockeye

Well, Vail has to be one of the most wholesome places in the world to live. Terrific public schools, affordable housing, and a close knit community minded populace come to mind first. If you want a real and rustic Colorado experience, Vail is the place!

I had to bust out laughing when I read that.

For one the schools suck filled with illegal immigrant kids that don't or wont learn english. Teachers can hardly teach.

Affordable housing? Probably one of the least affordable places in the USA Vail is. Especially when you compare income to housing cost. That's mainly why I left after 7 years. Decided I didn't want to be slave to a mortgage on a dumpy condo barely wide enough to swing my arms around in.

Air Quality and noise is a problem as dirty air can settle in the valley and the noise from I-70 is not pleasant.

[wanneroo]

Originally Posted by Chelle-Angel

Considering relocating from SF Bay Area to Vail. Housing prices are great in comparison but wondering if the temps will be too cold. Looking forward to the snow sports but other than that thinking that the weather may result in too much time indoors?

I spend a fair amount of time outdoors, and am neurotic about most things Californians fuss about: air/water quality, lots of organic food, access to outdoor activities, etc. I'll miss the ocean but thinking that I can come to Cali for mini vacations. Won't miss the traffic

In any event, feel free to share your thoughts.
Much appreciated.

Air quality I already mentioned. The Eagle river has been cleaned up but they are still having a problem with mag chloride runoff in the water shed.

Organic Food? I'm into that, but usually went down to the Wild Oats off Exit 262 in Denver an hour and half away. There are some few smaller markets in the mountains that are okay, but very expensive.

Outdoor activities? Plenty of that. You will have to get used to a higher altitude which has about 35% of the oxygen available at sea level, very dry air and increased UV exposure.

Weather? Depends where you live. The Colorado mountains is like the San Francisco area in that there are a lot of microclimates within a short driving distance. East Vail for instance is in shadow for most of winter, so is very cold from Sept to May with tons of snow piled up everywhere. West Vail if you live on the north side of the valley you will get more sun, the south side can be colder. A lot of people prefer to live down in the Edwards or Avon area which starts to get more into high desert, especially on the north side of the interstate. The weather is milder down valley.

Pretty much weather seasons in Vail go like this:

June 15-August 15 Summer with nice mornings and in the afternoon the wind always blow and thunderstorms can threaten. Sometimes it's completely dry with no thunderstorms

August 15-October 15 Fall. I always noticed right around the second week of August like clockwork the temps would start being slightly cooler and the days starting to get shorter. Snow can happen in early Sept onwards. Fall foliage can be beautiful. Warm days, colder nights.

Oct 15-Dec 15 Early winter. Snow, sleet, rain or a mix of the three.

Dec 15- Feb 15 Winter. Coldest part of winter. Snow tends to be drier.

Feb 15 - April 15 Late Winter. Heavier snowfalls with warmer days.

April 15- June 15 Spring. Snow can still happen till early June. Mud season in May with all the snowmelt run off.

[sunsprit]

You can breathe a little easier than wanneroo reports ... it's only about 12-15% less air at Vail's altitude then 35% less.

But wanneroo is correct re air pollution in the Vail valley, which is why they banned new woodburning fireplaces in the area years ago, and now regulate "burn" days. Many units have been retrofitted with "gas logs", and the new ones are all gas logs. Still, a blue cloud can hang in the valley for awhile at times with a light wind from the West and a temperature boundary layer that holds at just about the elevation of East Vail's eastern boundary. It's generally at it's worst in the late night, but starts just around sundown.

We're hoping that we see as much moisture as we did last winter. The spring run-off continued to keep the seasonal live stream and pond in my front yard flowing strongly into August this year. In comparison, most recent winters have had only enough moisture to keep the flow going until June and into early July at the latest.

Most Colorado folks would not consider Vail to be "affordable" living. I'm still in awe that you can look at the housing costs there as more affordable than SF. Unless you've got a good business going in the Valley, it's unlikely you can pay for your housing from income derived locally. Most of the Vail Valley employees are in the service sector, which doesn't pay a lot ... certainly not enough to save a downpayment and make payments on million dollar (and up uP UP) properties.

I'd also mention that I've seen snow in every month through the year in Vail or at least on the hill. I've been snowed in on Memorial Day weekend while camping in the area, or snowed on while bicycling over Vail pass to Frisco even later than that. Sometimes, locally intense rainstorms can go through in the summer months that can make the back roads and trails very difficult to access. You've got to be prepared with cold(er) weather gear even in the summer months with warm days for inclement weather.

[Chelle-Angel]

thanks for the posts - good info. I am not looking to replicate the SF Bay Area lifestyle in Vail; quite the opposite. However, what I do value is access (I'm in a rural area with horses, ranches, etc - the closest decent grocery store is about a 30 min drive) to quality produce, clean air/water, outdoor activities, etc. the things mentioned in previous post. California does have these nice things but comes with other aspects that are not so great; I would imagine the same is true for anyplace including Vail. So it's more about weighing the profit/cost associated with each area. Assuming the info is reliable, this is the great value that these posts provide. Very helpful - again thank you.

Regarding real estate - SF Bay Area is unreal. I've become used to the high cost of living here so the price tags in other areas for housing or otherwise usually aren't much of a shock. With the info provided thus far, I'm beginning to think along the lines of purchasing a condo for vacationing as opposed to year-round residency. Just a thought not sure.

"You can breathe a little easier than wanneroo reports ... it's only about 12-15% less air at Vail's altitude then 35% less." - This is a relief as I was concerned about the 35%. I lived in the Fort Collins area a few years back but did not make it up to the mountains as much as I would've liked - I don't remember the lack of oxygen being an issue but that may be because I spent the majority of time at 5K ft.

"Don't forget, we have the evil oil companies here in Colorado ruining the air and water. Why would you want to come here knowing that? " - Was not aware of this.

Lots to ponder. . .

[sunsprit]

A Condo for vacationing makes a lot more sense for most people than moving to Vail full time. That's why the local market has a lot more of this type of housing than single family residences.

The price points are more reasonable, and you've got active on-site management along with the possibility of income when you're not in residence.

Access to ranches/equine is getting a little more difficult than it used to be in the Valley as the area has been turned into more commercial and housing developments. If you're in Vail, you'll be heading downvalley some distance before you'll have access to horses. The closest public stables I can think of these days is at Cordillera, but I don't know their availability of boarding/horses or if there's a "membership" involved. Very pretty country to ride in, however ... we've taken our horses there for a couple of days packing in back in the 1980's.