Pueblo - General Info (Denver, Colorado Springs: per square foot, cost of, stadium)

[wong21fr]

Originally Posted by Josseppie

Does Denver and Las Vegas have more to do? Yes and I hope so as they are many times our size however for its size Pueblo has a lot to do, more so then most cities about our size. Just ask people from Longmont where they don't even have a performing art theater.

They technically do:

http://www.longmonttheatre.org/

Of course, a better comparison is Fort Collins and it's superb Lincoln Center.

[Josseppie]

Originally Posted by wong21fr

They technically do:

http://www.longmonttheatre.org/

Of course, a better comparison is Fort Collins and it's superb Lincoln Center.

The Lincoln center is nice but a lot smaller compared to the Sangre De Cristo Art center complex including the Buell Children's Museum and stage theater, Pueblo convention center, and the Memorial Hall Performing Arts theater. Then Pueblo has the added bonus of having these on or near the Riverwalk.

[wong21fr]

^You forgot CSU Pueblo, the State Fair, and the mental hospital. Remember, you have to bunch every single conceivable thing together and claim it's all part of a giant homogeneous object. That's how you sell Pueblo.

[Josseppie]

Umm no. That is what is part of the creative art coradour and was used by the city to secure the grant for the expansion of the convention center/ arena. That is because all the buildings are located near each other on or near the Riverwalk and look upon as one large complex much like the DCPA/ Colorado Convention Center in downtown Denver. Just on a much smaller scale. You might recall Fort Collins tried to do that a few years ago when they remodeled the Lincoln Center but last I heard the convention center never got off the drawing board.

FYI: They expect to break ground on the convention center expansion and new arena in the first quarter of 2014. I can't wait as it will be fun to see it built.

[Screw Sacramento]

Originally Posted by wong21fr

^You forgot CSU Pueblo, the State Fair, and the mental hospital. Remember, you have to bunch every single conceivable thing together and claim it's all part of a giant homogeneous object. That's how you sell Pueblo.

Don't forget the annual Chili Festival. Didn't have a chance to make it myself this year, but it's supposed to be good.

...and the tarantula migrations, if you're in to that sort of thing.

[wong21fr]

Originally Posted by Josseppie

Umm no. That is what is part of the creative art coradour and was used by the city to secure the grant for the expansion of the convention center/ arena. That is because all the buildings are located near each other on or near the Riverwalk and look upon as one large complex much like the DCPA/ Colorado Convention Center in downtown Denver. Just on a much smaller scale. You might recall Fort Collins tried to do that a few years ago when they remodeled the Lincoln Center but last I heard the convention center never got off the drawing board..

Yeah, yeah, they sold half of DT Pueblo as a creative art "corridor" to get the public monies. A good marketing strategy, but it doesn't make it a complex when the facilities are more than a half dozen blocks apart and separated by vast parking lots. The new convention center and arena will be a complex, but it's laughable the way everything else is thrown in. It's like tying some of the art galleries in LoDo into the First Friday's on Santa Fe. It looks somewhat feasible on a map, but there's no experience if you get out and walk it.

Like I said, just throw as many things together as possible, label it something creative, and start marketing it as such. That's how you sell Pueblo.

[Josseppie]

Originally Posted by wong21fr

Yeah, yeah, they sold half of DT Pueblo as a creative art "corridor" to get the public monies. A good marketing strategy, but it doesn't make it a complex when the facilities are more than a half dozen blocks apart and separated by vast parking lots. The new convention center and arena will be a complex, but it's laughable the way everything else is thrown in. It's like tying some of the art galleries in LoDo into the First Friday's on Santa Fe. It looks somewhat feasible on a map, but there's no experience if you get out and walk it.

Like I said, just throw as many things together as possible, label it something creative, and start marketing it as such. That's how you sell Pueblo.

You obviously don't know Pueblo and how the buildings work together. The Sangre De Cristo Art Center is cati-corner from the convention center and currently the convention center does sit across a vast parking lot to Memorial Hall but they will use that parking lot for the expansion making the convention center about 1 block away from Memorial Hall. That is why when it comes to the arts they are all used interchangeably much like the DCPA/ Colorado Convention center area in Denver. In fact the parking garage the urban renewal authority will build will serve the entire area including all 3 buildings. The difference is instead of being connected by a large open roof they are connected by a Riverwalk. One of the things I am looking forward to is the arena as it will give downtown Pueblo a 5,000 to 10,000 seat facility to host indoor concerts, something that downtown Pueblo lacks now.

[wong21fr]

^I know that you are selling something that isn't there. You may find it cute and quaint and a symbol of how important Pueblo is. I find it to be a sprawling plan that is trying to revitalize a downtown with serious decay and only gets maybe 25% of what the area needs.

It's obvious that you love Pueblo so much that you don't mind putting the lipstick on the pig. But your description just doesn't correlate to how everything interacts on the ground. Nothing except the Riverwalk (which hardly ties all of the facilities that you mentioned together) is pedestrian oriented and the walking experience around the area is terrible (which is a big reason why you never see anyone walking around except when there's a festival). Maybe the convention center expansion and arena will fix all of this, but I seriously doubt it. There's just so much that has to be done in the area to make it an engaging and interesting urban experience. In six years it will probably be better, but it's still got a long, long way to go.

[Josseppie]

Or perhaps you do not like Pueblo so much you do not see what we have or what we have done to improve the city since the economic collapse of the 1980's. The efforts of the city is the only reason we are currently at our peak population when all other manufacturing cities are not. Plus regional planners, not me, have said Pueblo will grow 11 times more in the next 30 years then it did in the past 50 putting the MSA over 600,000 people by 2040. (My math is the MSA was 118,685 people in 1960 and 160,852 today. That makes the growth 42,167 people. Take that number times 11 and its 463,837 plus the current population of 160,852 and the MSA would be 624,689. Not as large as the Denver and Colorado Springs MSA but a nice size MSA, at least in my opinion.)

As far as downtown. I agree it has a long way to go as we still have a high vacancy rate and some buildings that need to be torn down. That being said we have done a lot since the mid 1990's and continue to do so even during this recession. It will be interesting to see what impact the larger convention center and PBR world arena have on downtown and Pueblo.

Something else to keep a eye on its a proposed sales tax increase that will go towards non profits. Two of which are the Riverwalk and Sangre De Cristo Art center. Another one is the state fair. I am going to vote for the tax as I think it will enhance Pueblo and in my opinion I need to put my money where my mouth is. I think it will pass but I will find out this November.

Because of what Pueblo does downtown has amenities not found in any downtown in the state including Denver which is one reason I have such high hope for this region in the next 20-30 years. Will downtown be completely walk-able? That is a good question and I do see it going in that direction but we are years if not decades away from realizing that.

[Screw Sacramento]

I'm no Pueblo native, but it seems like the city is starting to grow up and prosper.

I haven't felt unsafe since living here, and I know the cost of living is more than reasonable in a good and spacious area such as Pueblo West.

CSU-Pueblo attracts students and talent from all over the globe, and has top of the line accreditations and faculty. There's nothing wrong with the education here. Same goes for PCC; a perfectly decent community college.

There are also decent primary schools in the area, if you know where to look.

Great local restaurants abound, and Pueblo is a close distance from other opportunities such as Colorado Springs (about 1 hr), and Denver (about 2.5 hours away).

They also have some decent local attractions that have been mentioned, such as the Sangro De Cristo Art and Theatre downtown, or the Riverwalk. It's nothing spectacular, but it's nice.

My family has also enjoyed the occasional drive down to Trinidad, the Sand Dunes, or even New Mexico for day to weekend long recreation.

It's a good place to live for the retiree, or the younger person looking for a less expensive/slower pace of life.