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There's a new Renaissance Hotel about to open on the far northern fringes of COLO SPGS at exit 153 (Interquest / Black Forest). It will have a rather large conference area, but nothing of convention center size. It will be able to host a lot of USAFA functions that cannot be handled on-post. They hope to be open in April 2010 and be running smoothly in time for USAFA graduation (late May 2010) when thousands of people will descend on the area. Their location right at the I-25 interchange (behind Hollywood theaters) is also a plus over Phil Long or downtown. This development, and Colorado Crossing on the opposite corner continue the linear expansion of COLO SPGS along the I-25 corridor.
Phil Long is hampered by poor parking and no really good hotel nearby, unless Howard Johnson's and other mid-class motel chains flicks your bic; though there are tons of eateries within a mile of there.
Mike,
In my response I wanted to build upon what Molly said so here the quote:
"Tejon would make a great ped mall; like the 16th street mall in Denver.
Colorado Springs has so much to offer; I think the city needs more open-minded leadership.
It would be great to have a downtown that you would not have to "jump," over Monument Hill, every time you wanted a good time.
Colorado Springs needs a transportation system and more things to do; besides tourist attractions."
I don't disagree with anything Molly says and that is what Pueblo is trying to do. Why rely on Denver when we could do the same thing down here.
Now looking at your post this is again where Colorado Springs missed the boat. Imagine if they would of got the developers to build the Renaissance Hotel and Phil Long Expo center in downtown? Then they could of worked together with the existing hotels to draw large conventions downtown thus improve your downtown. That combined with the baseball stadium and World Arena in downtown Colorado Springs would of made your downtown extremely vibrant and worthy of a metro area that is over 600,000 people. That is Pueblo's goal and why we direct much of that kind of development downtown. You guys can learn from us, yes the smaller industrial city does some things right, and can have a downtown that actually draws people from Denver not one that causes people to drive to Denver.
Right now Pueblo has a $55 million dollar project planned for downtown that if built would be a catalyst for more projects that will easily be in the millions of dollars. This could of been Colorado Springs if you guys would of had a focused urban renewal plan, instead, while we get more dense and spread out you guys just spread out. Is that how you want Colorado Springs to be known as instead of something like Molly envisioned? That happened with Minneapolis/ St Paul. Minneapolis is the larger city yet St Paul has the better downtown. If this keeps up I could see that defiantly being the case here as both cities continue to grow.
Now looking at your post this is again where Colorado Springs missed the boat. Imagine if they would of got the developers to build the Renaissance Hotel and Phil Long Expo center in downtown? Then they could of worked together with the existing hotels to draw large conventions downtown thus improve your downtown. That combined with the baseball stadium and World Arena in downtown Colorado Springs would of made your downtown extremely vibrant and worthy of a metro area that is over 600,000 people. That is Pueblo's goal and why we direct much of that kind of development downtown. You guys can learn from us, yes the smaller industrial city does some things right, and can have a downtown that actually draws people from Denver not one that causes people to drive to Denver.
Right now Pueblo has a $55 million dollar project planned for downtown that if built would be a catalyst for more projects that will easily be in the millions of dollars. This could of been Colorado Springs if you guys would of had a focused urban renewal plan, instead, while we get more dense and spread out you guys just spread out. Is that how you want Colorado Springs to be known as instead of something like Molly envisioned? That happened with Minneapolis/ St Paul. Minneapolis is the larger city yet St Paul has the better downtown. If this keeps up I could see that defiantly being the case here as both cities continue to grow.
Lots of us don't think Colorado Springs missed the boat at all. And we live here...you don't.
Don't know where you're getting your numbers, but we don't have 600K people here in the Springs. More like 420K. And a family-oriented city like this doesn't need the sort of downtown you urban expansionists think would be so great. I moved here because it DOESN'T reek of urban congestion like so many other cities do, and like you wish your own city would.
I think that if you get your way, we will indeed have some things to learn from Pueblo...specifically what NOT to do. I don't want the Springs to look like Denver, and I REALLY don't want the Springs to ever look like Pueblo. If I wanted brown dirt I could have moved to Las Vegas.
Lots of us don't think Colorado Springs missed the boat at all. And we live here...you don't.
Don't know where you're getting your numbers, but we don't have 600K people here in the Springs. More like 420K. And a family-oriented city like this doesn't need the sort of downtown you urban expansionists think would be so great. I moved here because it DOESN'T reek of urban congestion like so many other cities do, and like you wish your own city would.
I think that if you get your way, we will indeed have some things to learn from Pueblo...specifically what NOT to do. I don't want the Springs to look like Denver, and I REALLY don't want the Springs to ever look like Pueblo. If I wanted brown dirt I could have moved to Las Vegas.
El Paso County, Colorado
Population by the U.S. Census bureau is 596,093 in 2008. That is considered the Colorado Springs MSA. I, also, think you have to add Teller county but I am not sure. If so that brings the Colorado Springs MSA over 600,000 people but anyway it is around 600,000 people.
As far as downtown I want to stay on topic. If the majority of Springs residents do not want a dense and vibrant downtown then that is their choice but IMO a dense vibrant downtown is more appealing then a one that is spread out with public ammonites (stadiums, convention center etc.) spread out all over the city. If Pueblo is able to do that in the next 10 years while the Springs continues to expand out word, I would consider downtown Pueblo more a success then the Springs even if they continue to be the larger city.
Pueblo is the ONLY city in the state of Colorado built on the site of a fort. We recently found it and it was located in what is now downtown. So they built a repilca and a musem.
do you have something to back that up? cus i find it hard to believe that FORT Collins or FORT Morgan didn't have forts at some point since they were both pretty important in early westward expansion after Colorado was first settled.
Population by the U.S. Census bureau is 596,093 in 2008. That is considered the Colorado Springs MSA. I, also, think you have to add Teller county but I am not sure. If so that brings the Colorado Springs MSA over 600,000 people but anyway it is around 600,000 people.
As far as downtown I want to stay on topic. If the majority of Springs residents do not want a dense and vibrant downtown then that is their choice but IMO a dense vibrant downtown is more appealing then a one that is spread out with public ammonites (stadiums, convention center etc.) spread out all over the city. If Pueblo is able to do that in the next 10 years while the Springs continues to expand out word, I would consider downtown Pueblo more a success then the Springs even if they continue to be the larger city.
Teller County is in fact added.
As for the downtown, density is nice but only if the architecture varies (must i reference the SF skyline?). Also being spread out isn't entirely a bad idea given the location and the backdrop. In the case of the Springs it allows for a larger downtown with a wider skyline without damaging the view of the mountains (i personally don't think anything higher than 25, MAYBE 30, floors is really needed in the Springs (current tallest is only 15 floors)).
As for the downtown, density is nice but only if the architecture varies (must i reference the SF skyline?). Also being spread out isn't entirely a bad idea given the location and the backdrop. In the case of the Springs it allows for a larger downtown with a wider skyline without damaging the view of the mountains (i personally don't think anything higher than 25, MAYBE 30, floors is really needed in the Springs (current tallest is only 15 floors)).
I thought so about Teller county but did not want to assume.
I agree with you on the height as not every city needs to have a sky line like Denver. I can see Pueblo having sky scrapers and it would go nicely with the city but I give you the Springs is better with more low to mid rise highrise's. I, also, agree with you that a city needs to pay attention to the architecture style.
When I say spread out I am not talking the downtown but the city. Colorado Springs covers more area then the city of Denver, I don't think that includes Bannen Lewis Ranch either, and the city of Colorado Springs is only 350,000 people or so. The downtown urban area is smaller then Pueblo's and we are only 1/3 the size of Colorado Springs. I grant you that the Springs has the best back drop in the front range but they don't use it to it's full potential. Imagine if they had a nice downtown with all the amenities I talked about (baseball stadium, Renaissance Hotel, Phil long expo center, hockey arena etc.) Then people would have a reason to go downtown drawing thousands of people that in return would create a demand for restaurants and retail stores. Thus, the current restaurants and retail stores would not be struggling and trying to find out how to get people down they would be thriving and more would open. I know I would love to walk in a nice dense downtown Colorado Springs with Pikes Peak as the back drop and have a nice dinner. I would bet Colorado Springs would get people from all over to stroll and shop there.
Now the reality is much different. While Pueblo goal is to do that with the Riverwalk, Convention Center, baseball stadium, outdoor amphitheater, hockey arena etc. Colorado Springs builds its amentias far from each other and in the "suburbs". This does not create one single location that is a draw so retail stores and restaurants can locate at, instead they have a few areas that must be reached by car with a few restaurants and shopping in each area. That, also, leaves their downtown struggling and trying to find its identity in the new economy. How will this play out in the next 10 years as Pueblo keeps its urban renewal focused while Colorado Springs has yet to find one? That is the question and the answer will let us all know what philosophy works better, Public and private money to redevelop a downtown or just private money.
BTW just FYI Pueblo's tallest highrise is 18 stories so we have a taller building and we are smaller....
do you have something to back that up? cus i find it hard to believe that FORT Collins or FORT Morgan didn't have forts at some point since they were both pretty important in early westward expansion after Colorado was first settled.
I read it in a book called Pueblo A pictorial history. Other cities were built near forts but Pueblo is the only city to be built on the site of a fort. BTW I don't think there ever was a "Fort Collins" so I think they just named the city Fort Collins. That does help Pueblo's downtown as it gives it history that no other city, even Denver, has and we use it to our full potential with a museum. The first Fort was built in Pueblo in 1842 as a trading center between Mexico and the United States. Here is the photo of the area today:
Population by the U.S. Census bureau is 596,093 in 2008. That is considered the Colorado Springs MSA. I, also, think you have to add Teller county but I am not sure. If so that brings the Colorado Springs MSA over 600,000 people but anyway it is around 600,000 people.
That's a Census bureau statistical construct for their bean counting. The Colorado Springs Metro Statistical Area. El Paso County extends almost to Limon, and almost to Pueblo, too.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Josseppie
As far as downtown I want to stay on topic. If the majority of Springs residents do not want a dense and vibrant downtown then that is their choice but IMO a dense vibrant downtown is more appealing then a one that is spread out with public ammonites (stadiums, convention center etc.) spread out all over the city. If Pueblo is able to do that in the next 10 years while the Springs continues to expand out word, I would consider downtown Pueblo more a success then the Springs even if they continue to be the larger city.
You can have your jam-packed urban abyss. And you're free to think it a success, too.
And what are "public ammonites?" Would that be the extinct cephalopods, or the ancient descendants of Ammon? I don't remember seeing either of them spread out over Colorado Springs, though.
That's a Census bureau statistical construct for their bean counting. The Colorado Springs Metro Statistical Area. El Paso County extends almost to Limon, and almost to Pueblo, too.
You can have your jam-packed urban abyss. And you're free to think it a success, too.
And what are "public ammonites?" Would that be the extinct cephalopods, or the ancient descendants of Ammon? I don't remember seeing either of them spread out over Colorado Springs, though.
Just so we know what we are talking about some definitions.
Colorado Springs metro statistical area:
The Colorado Springs MSA encompasses El Paso County and Teller County, Colorado. The Census Bureau estimates that the population was 617,714 in 2008.
The amentias I talk about are the World Arena, built on the south end of the Springs, Renaissance Hotel, built on the north end, Phil Long Expo Center, built north of downtown, baseball stadium, built south east. What this does is decentralize Colorado Springs causing restaurants and retail stores to be spread out. That is turn causes more traffic as people have to drive more. If all the amentias I talk about were in one location, downtown, then a lot the retail stores and restaurants could cluster in one area. That would mean less driving and create a walkable downtown. The business would, also, do better because they would not just rely on one event but on all the major events to draw people. That is what Pueblo is trying to do with our downtown with the Riverwalk, convention center, outdoor amphitheater, baseball stadium, hockey arena etc. This will create a area that will hopefully draw people from all over southern Colorado to shop, eat and play in Pueblo. This in turn will create more jobs for Puebloans and a stronger tax base for the city.
So if you idea of a downtown is not to be the focus of the city and want the amentias spread out all over then you will like Colorado Springs downtown more if you think the downtown should be the center of the city with a nice walkable downtown with amentias that draw people from a large region then Pueblo is the downtown for you. Obviously I perfer Pueblo's model.
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