Heating with Natural Gas vs Propane - Is One Better? (low income, water heater)

[McGowdog]

I wish she got a better deal. Colorado Natural Gas (a Texas company probably) charged us $100.00 per orifice or 200 for our household to hook up.

Maybe because in Pueblo West, there was a mass exodus from yard bombs. The propane folks were real low class jerks to us too. I'd like to see them try to come work for us now.

[billlane501]

I used 520 gallons of propane last year. The current price for propane in my area is $3.56/gallon. I am considering converting to Natural Gas. What would have I paid for Natural Gas over the same time period?

Thanks, Bill Lane

[McGowdog]

I think it's 8.27 per cu ft now. I know water volume is about 7.48 gallons per cu ft but don't know about gas. My bill this month is about 24 bucks. Last winter, no month got over about 120 bucks. In any case, IT'S CHEAPER!

[davebarnes]

RESIDENTIAL ENERGY COST COMPARISON

My last gas bill from Xcel Energy in Denver had me paying $1.11 per therm

[Mike from back east]

Originally Posted by billlane501

I used 520 gallons of propane last year. The current price for propane in my area is $3.56/gallon. I am considering converting to Natural Gas. What would have I paid for Natural Gas over the same time period?

Thanks, Bill Lane

Bill, using the comparison chart that Dave provided, you are paying THREE TIMES as much for propane than it would cost for natural gas. That's one of the reasons some propane suppliers pay a 9% dividend each year.

[McGowdog]

Originally Posted by McGowdog

I think it's 8.27 per cu ft now. I know water volume is about 7.48 gallons per cu ft but don't know about gas.

Someone repped me on one of these posts so thanks. Now that I go over it again, I'm noticing that I'd made a slight oversight. I'm no LP expert, but I do know enough to know that lp is a liquid, not a gas. So it stores as a liquid and comes out as a gas, making the formula I was trying to use even more invalid.

Oh, and natural gas, still cheaper! Oh, but my/our old propane company did send us a flyer stating that they would take $50.00 off our next bill if we switched back!

[Teckeeee]

All I remember was when the one of two propane companies we used by Durango came out I felt like it was time to grab lube no BS. The chuckle head disconnects from our tank propane is spraying for 3 seconds and it gets added to our bill. If they aren't they should be regulated by the PUC because it's a scam, unless you are on some obscure location where you can't get natural gas.

[Colorado Rambler]

I am stuck using propane for the first time in my life and after only one month, I already loathe it. The stuff costs a fortune. I think it would be cheaper to heat my place with melted golden eagle dollars. I have a small ceramic electric heater that I am using to lessen my propane bill, but not sure of the cost comparison between such electric heat versus propane. Does anyone know how the two compare?

I am working up to begging the people who own this property to put in a wood burner stove. Thanks to all the spruce budworm, etc., there's plenty of wood free for the taking around here, and I have no prob going out and filling up my truck with all that dead pinon and spruce and just slash in general.

Propane sucks!

[jazzlover]

Here's the deal:

Though propane and natural gas have similar household uses, their source, distribution and marketing are substantially different. Propane is generally a by-product of oil production. As such, its supply has not expanded a whole lot in the last few years. The distribution of propane from supplier to customer--especially from the wholesaler to retailer to customer is not very efficient, usually by truck. Finally, propane is generally marketed to customers who, because of the location of their home, have no other alternative for gaseous fuel. So, not surprisingly propane costs more than natural gas, and the disparity is likely to grow even larger for the foreseeable future.

Natural gas can be a by-product of oil production also, but most of it these days comes from dedicated natural gas wells. Methane (natural gas) is also widely associated with coal deposits--thus the push these days for coalbed methane production to tap that source. Unlike propane, natural gas production has substantially increased over the last few years. That, and the lack of adequate pipeline capacity to transport it from some production areas (the Rocky Mountain West being a major gas producer that does not have sufficient pipeline capacity) has meant that natural gas in this region has been pretty cheap for consumers (why that isn't the case in some places I will explain in a minute). Natural gas is gathered, transported, and distributed to the end user almost exclusively by pipeline, which is the most cost-efficient method to transport a gaseous fuel. Finally, while the price of natural gas is not regulated, the amount of "markup" (profit) that companies that transport and distribute natural gas to the end user generally is regulated, both at the federal and state level.

Now, the retail price of both propane and natural gas can vary considerably from place to place, but often for differing reasons. In the case of propane, those variances are often explained by "what the market will bear." For example, in remote areas that are distant from production and supply terminals, with few retailers, propane will be very expensive--even more so in places where the customer has no alternative choice other than heating with wood, solar, or some other non-conventional source of energy. In natural gas's case, prices can vary because of contractual arrangements for the supplier to purchase natural gas. Here is a great example of that: One natural gas utility in Colorado--the one that I had the misfortune of being served by when I lived in Colorado--stupidly entered into a lot of long-term contracts for its natural gas supplies when natural gas prices were at their peak of around $10-$11 per mcf a few years ago. So, even though natural gas has dropped in price to as low as $3 per mcf in the intervening years, they are still paying a average price per mcf of over $7 because of those lingering high-priced long-term contracts. Because they are a regulated utility, the gas company simply adds their allowed markup to that price and passes it on to the consumer. One of the things that I looked for when I left Colorado was an energy-efficient home heated with natural gas (not propane) and where the gas company was not saddled with a bunch of high-priced supply contracts. I found just that, and my heating bill is a fraction of what it was in Colorado.

People that insist on living out in the sticks in rural Colorado, where propane heating is a necessity, are really going to get hammered on fuel costs as propane continues to increase in price. As for heating with wood, if one figures in the cost of getting it--labor, fuel for transport, etc., it's not very cost effective unless the wood supply is literally within a few miles of one's residence. Otherwise, its cost per BTU is not very competitive with natural gas.

In the end, the best way to economize on home heating is through conservation. To most people, that means energy efficient construction and adequate insulation--but, ultimately, it will also mean reducing the amount of heated square footage that one needs to have. 5,000 sq. ft. McMansions out in the middle of nowhere will be unmarketable albatrosses in a few years.

[Colorado Rambler]

Originally Posted by jazzlover

Here's the deal:

Though propane and natural gas have similar household uses, their source, distribution and marketing are substantially different. Propane is generally a by-product of oil production. As such, its supply has not expanded a whole lot in the last few years. The distribution of propane from supplier to customer--especially from the wholesaler to retailer to customer is not very efficient, usually by truck. Finally, propane is generally marketed to customers who, because of the location of their home, have no other alternative for gaseous fuel. So, not surprisingly propane costs more than natural gas, and the disparity is likely to grow even larger for the foreseeable future.

Natural gas can be a by-product of oil production also, but most of it these days comes from dedicated natural gas wells. Methane (natural gas) is also widely associated with coal deposits--thus the push these days for coalbed methane production to tap that source. Unlike propane, natural gas production has substantially increased over the last few years. That, and the lack of adequate pipeline capacity to transport it from some production areas (the Rocky Mountain West being a major gas producer that does not have sufficient pipeline capacity) has meant that natural gas in this region has been pretty cheap for consumers (why that isn't the case in some places I will explain in a minute). Natural gas is gathered, transported, and distributed to the end user almost exclusively by pipeline, which is the most cost-efficient method to transport a gaseous fuel. Finally, while the price of natural gas is not regulated, the amount of "markup" (profit) that companies that transport and distribute natural gas to the end user generally is regulated, both at the federal and state level.

Now, the retail price of both propane and natural gas can vary considerably from place to place, but often for differing reasons. In the case of propane, those variances are often explained by "what the market will bear." For example, in remote areas that are distant from production and supply terminals, with few retailers, propane will be very expensive--even more so in places where the customer has no alternative choice other than heating with wood, solar, or some other non-conventional source of energy. In natural gas's case, prices can vary because of contractual arrangements for the supplier to purchase natural gas. Here is a great example of that: One natural gas utility in Colorado--the one that I had the misfortune of being served by when I lived in Colorado--stupidly entered into a lot of long-term contracts for its natural gas supplies when natural gas prices were at their peak of around $10-$11 per mcf a few years ago. So, even though natural gas has dropped in price to as low as $3 per mcf in the intervening years, they are still paying a average price per mcf of over $7 because of those lingering high-priced long-term contracts. Because they are a regulated utility, the gas company simply adds their allowed markup to that price and passes it on to the consumer. One of the things that I looked for when I left Colorado was an energy-efficient home heated with natural gas (not propane) and where the gas company was not saddled with a bunch of high-priced supply contracts. I found just that, and my heating bill is a fraction of what it was in Colorado.

As always, thank you for the great explanation of propane vs. natural gas. IMO the propane dealers are going to put themselves out of business quickly enough because alternative energy like solar panels is the bargain of a life time by comparison. If I owned this place, the solar panel guy would be comming along on Monday if not this weekend.

People that insist on living out in the sticks in rural Colorado, where propane heating is a necessity, are really going to get hammered on fuel costs as propane continues to increase in price. As for heating with wood, if one figures in the cost of getting it--labor, fuel for transport, etc., it's not very cost effective unless the wood supply is literally within a few miles of one's residence. Otherwise, its cost per BTU is not very competitive with natural gas.

In the end, the best way to economize on home heating is through conservation. To most people, that means energy efficient construction and adequate insulation--but, ultimately, it will also mean reducing the amount of heated square footage that one needs to have. 5,000 sq. ft. McMansions out in the middle of nowhere will be unmarketable albatrosses in a few years.

Well, I insist on living here the same way pikas insist on living at altitudes where the temps never get much over 80 degrees or else they die. The San Juans are my home and ain't no propane dealer going to kick me out of here. Since the slings and arrows of outrageous fortune have caused me to be a renter rather than an owner, I'll just have to look into a way where the good native Coloradan ranch family who own this place and the water rights and the two zillion acres of alfalfa fields that surround it will find it mutually beneficial to get rid of that damned propane tank and put in a wood burner or else call up the gas company to make a zig and a bit of a zag off old Highway 666 and extend the gas line to this place.

I know what you mean about the idiots and their McMansions in rural Colorado, though. There's some McMansions going in on old ranch property east of Dove Creek. I laugh when I happen to be out that way on a visit to the Dolores River Canyon. What on earth are those people thinking with those huge 10,000 sq ft atrocities and attendant propane tank out back? Why on earth would anyone WANT a McMansion east of DOVE CREEK of all places? Folks from some place else - all of them crazy if you ask me.