Fort Collins or Colorado Springs???

[jazzlover]

Originally Posted by Viper2

What nonsense. Virtually anyone can settle in whichever state in the United States they choose to, as long as they can settle for the income they end up earning.

No state is "unreachable".

Utter nonsense.

People may settle wherever they want, but if they can not make a livable income, they will eventually have to move elsewhere. That happens to many, many people who relocate to Colorado--that's just reality.

[Viper2]

Originally Posted by jazzlover

People may settle wherever they want, but if they can not make a livable income, they will eventually have to move elsewhere. That happens to many, many people who relocate to Colorado--that's just reality.

That is not reality. You have no statistics to back up your claim. Colorado is very nice, but it is not some untouchable Shangri-la. I live in Washington state which is equally as beautiful as Colorado. However, I may move from here eventually just for a change of scenery, but I'm not sure.

Anyways, I read the same nonsense about Washington state before I moved here, about how there's "fierce competition because of the beautiful scenery". Yes, it's beautiful here but the competition is the same as anywhere else in the United States.

In the end, it all depends how much income an individual is willing to settle for. If someone is willing to live within their means, they can settle wherever they choose in the United States. And that's the reality of it.

[jazzlover]

Originally Posted by Viper2

That is not reality. You have no statistics to back up your claim. Colorado is very nice, but it is not some untouchable Shangri-la. I live in Washington state which is equally as beautiful as Colorado. However, I may move from here eventually just for a change of scenery, but I'm not sure.

Anyways, I read the same nonsense about Washington state before I moved here, about how there's "fierce competition because of the beautiful scenery". Yes, it's beautiful here but the competition is the same as anywhere else in the United States.

In the end, it all depends how much income an individual is willing to settle for. If someone is willing to live within their means, they can settle wherever they choose in the United States. And that's the reality of it.

Listen, I did not say it was "untouchable", but the "competition" can be keener in places that are considered desirable, or where living costs are substantially higher than many typical incomes. If you think you can do it, fine. But many people who move to places like Colorado (or Washington state for that matter) only think they can afford to live there, when, in reality, they can't. They get the nasty, but quite predictable surprise that their dream is not sustainable. It happens here so often that it's called the "Paradise Syndrome." There are some fairly big tradeoffs most people have to make in lifestyle or living standards in order to live long-term in Colorado, especially in the more desirable places in the state--some of us are willing to make them, others not. My late father, who was pretty successful, summed it up: "You can live exactly where you want, or you can do exactly the work you like to do, but very, very fortunate and relatively rare is the person who manages to do both."

Since I see nothing in your posts that indicates that you ever lived in Colorado, you might want to give some deference to those of us who have worked here (successfully) for decades when it comes to what it takes to "make it" here. We might just know something about it that you don't.

[Viper2]

Originally Posted by jazzlover

Listen, I did not say it was "untouchable", but the "competition" can be keener in places that are considered desirable, or where living costs are substantially higher than many typical incomes. If you think you can do it, fine. But many people who move to places like Colorado (or Washington state for that matter) only think they can afford to live there, when, in reality, they can't. They get the nasty, but quite predictable surprise that their dream is not sustainable. It happens here so often that it's called the "Paradise Syndrome." There are some fairly big tradeoffs most people have to make in lifestyle or living standards in order to live long-term in Colorado, especially in the more desirable places in the state--some of us are willing to make them, others not. My late father, who was pretty successful, summed it up: "You can live exactly where you want, or you can do exactly the work you like to do, but very, very fortunate and relatively rare is the person who manages to do both."

Since I see nothing in your posts that indicates that you ever lived in Colorado, you might want to give some deference to those of us who have worked here (successfully) for decades when it comes to what it takes to "make it" here. We might just know something about it that you don't.

Honestly,Moderator cut: not necessary to think the state you live in is so much more desirable than other states. In a way, you are giving Colorado "delusions of grandeur". There are plenty of equally beautiful mountain states in the United States and millions of people live happily and earn good incomes in them. However, money does not buy happiness.

I live in one of these beautiful mountain states and I am very happy.

People, please don't believe this nonsense about "Paradise Syndrome". This is the kind of misinformation that shouldn't be perpetuated on internet forums.

[jazzlover]

Originally Posted by Viper2

People, please don't believe this nonsense about "Paradise Syndrome". This is the kind of misinformation that shouldn't be perpetuated on internet forums.

Yeah, I've only watched it go on in Colorado for over four decades now. I deal with economic issues and demographics EVERY DAY in my work. How may counties in Colorado have you been in? Me? 64 out of 64--many times. How many people do you know from Colorado, and from what parts of the state? Me? Many--again from ALL 64 counties. How many communities are you familiar with in Colorado? Me? Every town over about 3,000 people in the whole state, and most towns with a population of over 100. Do you know what industries and enterprises drive the economies of all those places? I do. What do you know about the history of Colorado, economic and otherwise? Me? Most of it, since around 1844 or so.

I really don't care whether you, or anyone else agrees with my opinions or not. But don't imply that I'm some know-nothing dolt or that I don't know what I'm talking about when it comes to this state. I'll put my knowledge of Colorado and the living environment here up against anybody's--any day.

[80skeys]

Originally Posted by Viper2

That is not reality. You have no statistics to back up your claim. Colorado is very nice, but it is not some untouchable Shangri-la. I live in Washington state which is equally as beautiful as Colorado. However, I may move from here eventually just for a change of scenery, but I'm not sure.

I agree with you, but with some caveats. I also agree with jazzlover, with some caveats.

There's expensive states and there's cheap states. Colorado is more on the expensive side, particularly the mountain areas, because it's such a draw for people. If you want to live in a beautiful mountain area in Colorado, you either must have a lot of money or be willing to sacrifice comforts and privacy to make ends meet (ie. splitting an apartment with five other people, holding down three jobs, etc.) These areas are dominated by rich individuals, land interests (eg. agricultural) or the national forest system. There's no opportunities for a person with average means to own property.

[Viper2]

Originally Posted by 80skeys

I agree with you, but with some caveats. I also agree with jazzlover, with some caveats.

There's expensive states and there's cheap states. Colorado is more on the expensive side, particularly the mountain areas, because it's such a draw for people. If you want to live in a beautiful mountain area in Colorado, you either must have a lot of money or be willing to sacrifice comforts and privacy to make ends meet (ie. splitting an apartment with five other people, holding down three jobs, etc.) These areas are dominated by rich individuals, land interests (eg. agricultural) or the national forest system. There's no opportunities for a person with average means to own property.

Notice I said that anyone can live in any state they choose. I didn't say any neighborhood. Of course certain neighborhoods are going to be overly expensive for some, that is true in any state.

Although many (myself included) consider mountains to be a very desirable landscape to live nearby, it is not considered the most desirable by most people. Most people prefer to live near ocean. That's the reason price of oceanfront property in populated areas/states eclipses the price of mountain-front property in states like Colorado. Fortunately, where I presently live, I am nearby both mountains and ocean.

Also weather is a big factor. Colorado doesn't exactly have what most consider desirable weather. Most people prefer warm or tropical weather. The fact that the population of warm states and cities have been increasing higher than anywhere else proves this trend. That being said, many (myself included) prefer cold/cool weather, but this is not the norm.

So I think people who live in mountain states and brag about how "it's the most desirable place to live" or "job competition is higher here than anywhere else", need a reality check. Yes, in their opinion, it may be the most desirable place to live, but that opinion is not shared by most. Mountain states generally do not have the most competition for jobs, and do not have the highest growth rates. Like I said, the most desirable states are warm or tropical states with ocean nearby. That is the reality of it.

That being said, I personally much prefer living in a mountain state with cold/cool weather. Washington is kind of unique in that aspect because it has mountains, ocean, and cold/cool weather.