back from our trip

[MobyLL]

Originally Posted by tfox

Several reasons:

- The price of land is a much higher percentage of the average house's value in Metro Denver than most other places.
- The price of land and property in rural Colorado is generally not cheaper than urban Colorado, so there's little to no cheap land on the fringes of metro Denver on which to build. This is in contrast to most other states.
- Much of the sprawling new-growth is BYOW (Bring Your Own Water), in which the developers had to spend lots of money to acquire water rights. After that kind of expense, the developers need to make the lots small enough to ensure that they get are able to pay back their expenses.
- Metro Denver's counties have invested heavily in open space, particularly in the foothills. What is left over are small pockets of privately owned land. There's not enough land to go around to make large lots, except out east.

Personally, I'm very happy about the relative lack of large-lot development in Metro Denver. I hope this trend continues. Our Metro Area already have an obnoxiously large footprint and our VMT (Vehicle Miles Travelled) is unacceptably high. These standards are the enemies of proper urban planning. Since we don't want to have price run-ups in housing, nor do we want to give up our open space, nor do we want to attempt to stop population growth, the only answer is increase housing density. Large lots work against that goal and provide no community benefits. Therefore, from a planning perspective, I think it's a good thing we have few large lots in metro Denver and I'm anxious to see this trend continue and accelerate.

tfox, i agree with you wholeheartedly also -- and you will become famous soon enough. I know that people have different opinions and i can respect that, but the way i look at it is we are on a planet with finite resources and we need to be responsible citizens for the sake of future generations. If all 6 billion people on earth lived the same way as a typical suburban american does the planet would basically die from pollution and consumption of natural resources.

We are moving to Denver soon also, but specifically are looking to live in an urban area of denver that has convenient access to the light rail system with a 3000 to 6000 sq ft lot. In fact if Denver had not built the existing Light Rail and was not in the process of greatly expanding it, we would not be moving to Denver.

For those of you that desire the acre lots and wide open spaces and think of how crazy it is for people to live in places where they can practically shake hands with their neighbors when they lean out their windows, think of the alternative. If those of us who choose to live this way (dense, urban neighborhoods), chose to live the way that most americans seem to prefer and had the huge lots and drove miles and miles just to get milk or bread what would it mean for you. That you would have to move even further out to get the space you desire, that more roads would have to be built; more water and electrical lines -- which equates to an increase in your taxes; that you would probably be even further out from desirable recreational/shopping areas, etc. So instead of simply thinking those people are crazy, maybe stop and consider why they may be choosing to live the way that they do, and in a way making your lifestyle easier as well.

Many, maybe most of the people that live in dense urban areas are doing so by choice... and in many cases that choice involves thinking of things beyond their own personal comfort -- the environment, community, society in general. Make of it what you will, but what would the world be like if no one considered these things.

One thing I want to point out is that I don't mean this as an attack on Nashville or anyone else that has posted on this thread. I just want to try and make a point about why some people do not necessarily want the "American Dream" of a big house on an acre lot and a 4 car garage.

I hope to contribute to the denver/colorado board in a civilized manner. It's really sad what has happened to so many of these city forums and this one has largely avoided the name calling and personal attacks. If you don't know what I am talking about just read some of the things on the Miami, Atlanta, etc. boards.

[Rob_H]

My family also just came back from Colorado on vacation and (and looking at a place to possibly relocate in the future) and we also live in Nashville

I don't think the subdivisions are any different than any other subdivision area, including here in Nashville. One area here in Nashville I looked at had .18A lots. I luckily live in East Nashville where the lots are very large, but the price here is going up at a staggering rate and I can't stand the humidity, thus the reason we wanted to move back to CO, it is the one place I've lived that I loved the weather and scenery.

In our vacation we started in Denver and drove to Estes Park (just for relaxing) and also checked out Ft Collins, then headed west to see what the rest of the state looks like, we had never been past Glen Canyon. We really liked the west, around Rifle looked nice and of course down near Ouray, but a little too out of the way for my liking. I dont mind the drive but the zig zag roads would be a bit rough in bad weather months. We hit Mesa Verde and then made our way back going thru Durango, Pagosa Springs, Alamosa and on to Walsenburg and up I-25 to spend the last few days in the Springs. The part of the trip I found most surprising was how pretty the drive was from Mesa Verde to Walsenburg. Any of the towns along the way I'd love to live. I did see many trailers and a few high priced developments (not that I'd afford any of those) but the area is gorgeous. We're considering buying some land for when we retire. Atleast if we have some land we can dream of that log cabin we'll build some day I've read about the water problems and that part does have me bothered. Especially not being able to even keep water from rain unless you have water rights. Sounds crazy doesn't it! This was in my mind everytime I passed a big fancy golf course.

The only disappointing part of our trip was truely how bad the food was at Casa Bonitas ( i dont remember it being THAT bad) though the kids loved the place anyway, and the fact that Flying W ranch (which was still awesome) is now in the middle of a subdivision. We drove past the place at first because we didnt expect the sign pointing the way to be in someone's front yard. I was like OMG.

[5stones]

truely how bad the food was at Casa Bonitas

LOL!! I am still involved in a lawsuit with the onwers of Casa Bonita! (the margarita mug they gave me literally exploded in my hand and severed the tendon in my wrist! (they offered me a bandaide and free meal cards!! like I ever want to eat there!!)
I had to have hand surgury and 6 months of physical therapy! ( I just thought they should have to pay my medical expenses!!) I am out over 1000k in co-pays etc.

[nashville]

mathgeek,

I didn't mean to ignore your question! I actually did reply before we left last week on vacation but somehow it didn't end up here...not sure what happened; I'm still learning how to do all this. Anyway, the gist of my answer was that I felt we saw alot more and learned alot more by getting the help of a realtor to show us around. Sure, we could have driven around neighborhoods ourselves and visited new construction sales offices but I found just having someone to pepper with questions about traffic, schools, winter driving, housing prices, etc. gave us a better feel for where we might want to live. As someone else said, I too was upfront with the realtors I contacted (arrangements made before we left on our trip) regarding our purposes for our trip and that we would not be making decisions on purchasing a house at this time. I know sometimes realtors can be pushy but we didn't experience that I think because I was clear about what I wanted from them and what they could expect from us. We ended up spending half a day with 2 realtors (Ft. Collins and Boulder County) and full days with the other 3 realtors (West Denver suburbs, Douglas County, and the Springs). It worked out very well. We tried to be considerate of their time and appreciative of their efforts (treated them to lunch).

That's interesting to hear from someone else from Nashville! As a frame of reference for you, we live in Lebanon (small town of 20K, 20 miles east of N.) in the Iroquois subdivision which is a newer, very pretty, well taken care of neighborhood with lots of trees (planted and original) and yes, larger lots (ours is half-acre). There is not the squeeze for land here (at least yet) or a lack of water to perhaps drive the building of small lots. I understand what everyone is saying about the advantages of greater housing density, but also understand the perspective of someone coming from another part of the country where the living is more rural than suburban. Where we live feels like a little of both...suburban subdivision yet cattle grazing on large pastures on the main road right across the street from the subdiv. Also, I am told older neighborhoods like the one near ours, that used to be outside city limits, are on one acre plus lots because they are have septic tanks rather than city sewer.

I realize we won't end up in Colorado with what we have here (house or lot)and clearly the advantages of moving outweigh the disadvantages or we wouldn't be considering it. But I still enjoy a neighborhood where the houses are close enough for the kids to treat-or-treat on Halloween yet have some space and trees to enjoy sitting on the deck without intruding on my neighbor's privacy and vice versa.