I-25 Between Pueblo and Fort Collins (Denver, Colorado Springs: cost, best, areas)

[bostontopueblo]

The Big Dig in Boston which rebuilt I-93 helped a lot with easing traffic congestion but this was mainly because they got rid of half the exits and built it code unlike before.

[chilicheesefries]

Originally Posted by jazzlover

zenk was right--expand the highway and it just encourages more sprawl and more traffic. When I-25 was two lanes through Denver, it was jammed. Four lanes, same thing. Then six. And with every expansion, the proponents said, "If we build this for X-gazillion dollars, it will be expensive, but it will solve the traffic congestion problems." Well, they were half-right every time--it did cost a gazillion dollars. And, then, every next time, they said, "Well, this time it will be different. It will fix traffic congestion." But, of course, it didn't. So, this time will be different--why? Well, it won't.

The problem with this argument is that it is always made on fast-growing corridors. Of course it's going to keep filling up until it's made to a size that it won't fill up anymore - 10 lanes each way and I guarantee it won't fill up as much for a long, long time. The difficulty is proving that widening the road is the problem or a symptom. I don't think it can be done.

The real problem is that I-25 is the only viable north-south route and that Pueblo, Colorado Springs, Denver, etc. are all basically in a north-south straight line. There isn't more than one way to get there - ie to get from Denver to Laramie, WY you can go up I-25 to I-80 or go along US 287. There just aren't any viable alternate routes. Take Denver for example. If you want to go from Castle Rock to Longmont you'd have to take I-25 or go miles out of your way. The circle routes (not including E-470 which costs an arm and a leg to loop around the city) don't interconnect as well as they could. Imagine I-225 and I-270 connecting so you didn't have to get on I-70 for a while. Imagine a lot of alternatives like this. The only one of the cities along the front range that really has viable alternate ways to get there is Greeley because US 85 is a divided highway and so is I-25. This funneling of the traffic causes the large amount of traffic on I-25 more than anything.

High Speed Rail would be great but is it practical? The cost would be astronomical and how many trips would be made on it? How many of the trips from Pueblo to Denver could be replaced with train rides? One of the problems with trains/buses (long-distance public transit) is what do you do on the other end? If you drive the intermediate distances (Pueblo-Denver for example) you'll have your car to get you exactly where you want to go. If you take HSR and then the bus you might get close. If time is of the essence some of the time you gain on the train might be lost waiting for the bus.

[Mike from back east]

Originally Posted by Josseppie

Is Pueblo worth a billion dollars? Good question but unfortunately that is the cost to fix the interstate through the city as it was built directly though town. At some point it will have to be done as downtown grows as the highway was not built for a town much larger then we are now. So the question is not "if" but "when" and the cost of the project will only go up.

As far as HSR, I agree we need one but I don't think it should follow the interstate as there already is no room and would cost more upgrading the highway to allow for it then building a new HSR. In Pueblo alone I bet that would triple the cost of the interstate project. Not to mention thru Colorado Springs and Denver where its already built up with no room.

Putting an interstate highway THROUGH a city ruins the city. For that billion dollars I'd build a bypass around Pueblo, and then return the route through the city into a local boulevard, thus making the city much more livable.

[Josseppie]

Originally Posted by Mike from back east

Putting an interstate highway THROUGH a city ruins the city. For that billion dollars I'd build a bypass around Pueblo, and then return the route through the city into a local boulevard, thus making the city much more livable.

That was a alternative that was discussed and rejected by CDOT and the city of Pueblo because the city did not want the traffic flow to go around Pueblo plus the cost to fix the current interstate would still be a lot as it would take a lot of work to turn it into a boulevard as the problems would still be the same, lack of on ramps and tight curves. So that alternative is not even on the table anymore.

[McGowdog]

Originally Posted by jazzlover

Nonsense.

Nonsense to you jazz. Your life is the tail wagging the dog. I live to drive. You need to keep working and sacraficing to make this a reality for me.

Oh, and get out the way, bus rider.

Originally Posted by Mike from back east

Putting an interstate highway THROUGH a city ruins the city. For that billion dollars I'd build a bypass around Pueblo, and then return the route through the city into a local boulevard, thus making the city much more livable.

Wow! Two homers by MFBE in a row. Both reasonable and objective. Getting mad at the road or the cars or human nature, now that's stupid and dumba*$. This suggestion of MFBE here is probably the ONLY solution for Pueblo because there are parts of I-25 through Pueblo that are not only impossible to widen, but I don't even see how they can be repaired without a total stoppage for some time.

But I'm like Sammy Hagar. I can't NOT drive and I can't drive 55.

[bostontopueblo]

Hmmn lets just bury the highway under Pueblo... if someone can find a cheaper way to do that than they did back east. I mean its not like they have to build it under the Atlantic.

And driving in Pueblo is quite relaxing... if you ever drove in Boston or NYC or DC you'd know. 55 is the speed limit through most of Pueblo isn't it? don't speed on Pueblo Blvd they have cops hidden all over that thing .

[Mike from back east]

Originally Posted by McGowdog

....Wow! Two homers by MFBE in a row. Both reasonable and objective. Getting mad at the road or the cars or human nature, now that's stupid and dumba*$. This suggestion of MFBE here is probably the ONLY solution for Pueblo because there are parts of I-25 through Pueblo that are not only impossible to widen, but I don't even see how they can be repaired without a total stoppage for some time.

But I'm like Sammy Hagar. I can't NOT drive and I can't drive 55.

Thank you for the kind words. I've seen the old RR town of Cumberland, MD bisected by I-68 to where it's almost impossible for both the road and the city to co-exist.

He're looking at ya!

YouTube - "I Can't Drive 55" -Sammy Hagar [HD]

[jazzlover]

Originally Posted by McGowdog

Nonsense to you jazz. Your life is the tail wagging the dog. I live to drive. You need to keep working and sacraficing to make this a reality for me.

Oh, and get out the way, bus rider.

I actually like to drive, too, but I understand that it is a mode of transportation that is over-used, too heavily relied upon, too expensive (when one really looks at all the hidden costs and subsidies), and is--in its current form--unsustainable for many of the uses that it now must try to serve.

The quote from Kunstler's blog this week says it perfectly:

(T)hey [the New Urbanists] have emerged the victors in the long contest over how America will build itself, because it is now self-evident that suburban sprawl is an epic failure. Whether Americans like it or not, whether their identity is tied up in the suburban fantasy or not, we are faced with circumstances that now compel us to live differently.

"I live to drive." I equate that to when I was in college. I "lived" to drink beer, chase pretty girls around and have a good time. How ever much I 'lived" to do those fun things, I figured out that I couldn't do it forever, no matter how much I "lived" for it. I grew up. When it comes to a sustainable transportation system, it's time for America to grow up. We can't cruise Main Street, trying to look cool, forever.

[McGowdog]

True. And I've even put the booze down. But when it's time to give up the keys, please... just a 240 grain right to the back of my brain stem k?

I suppose a more polite way of saying it is the way The Who presented it... "I hope I die before I get old..."

[Josseppie]

Originally Posted by bostontopueblo

Hmmn lets just bury the highway under Pueblo... if someone can find a cheaper way to do that than they did back east. I mean its not like they have to build it under the Atlantic.

And driving in Pueblo is quite relaxing... if you ever drove in Boston or NYC or DC you'd know. 55 is the speed limit through most of Pueblo isn't it? don't speed on Pueblo Blvd they have cops hidden all over that thing .

The Pueblo "big dig" sounds fun. I would support it.

Here is what they plan on doing:

The purpose of the New Pueblo Freeway project is to improve safety for north-south travel and to improve local and regional mobility within and through the City of Pueblo to meet existing and future travel demands.

The link: The New Pueblo Freeway