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Old 10-07-2010, 10:12 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Columbiadata View Post
State support for RTP is why Charlotte hates Raleigh.
I suppose, but to each their own. Charlotte has developed nicely on its own - perhaps it got too dependent on banking, but I think they can diversify if they play their cards right (e.g., nuclear energy/engineering could be a promising cluster). Plus Charlotte has a more genuine business base that's not dependent on universities or PhDs. Charlotte feels like a big Greenville in that sense - classic sunbelt business boosterism, which the Triangle doesn't quite have (as successful as they may be otherwise). And because it's such a big business base, it can sustain a large connecting airline hub even though similar-sized cities like Nashville have lost them.
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Old 10-07-2010, 10:25 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Chi2Midlands View Post
I was talking about this with a co-worker this morning. I think, referring to your last sentence, it's more the former than the latter. While you can argue that Greenville/Spartanburg is marginally better situated logistically being on the I-85 corridor between Charlotte & Atlanta, I think it largely boils down to Greenville being a business town, and Columbia, in comparison, just is not. I think part of it is the history of the Upstates textile industry's decline, and that motivated the Upstate to do something about it, and has transformed that economic anxiety into economic boosterism & development. Columbia, in contrast, has historically been a stable government town, and so it has never truly been challenged to do something to grow up to be something better. This despite Columbia having excellent highway and rail connections, and an relatively well-educated workforce.
Read up on Charles Daniel as well. Fascinating history. A Greenville businessman that built Daniel Corp (Fuor) into one of the top 3 engineering firms in the world.

As early as the 1930's, Daniel would head north to the large cities (Boston, NYC, Philly, Chicago, etc) and make contacts with influential captains of industry. In those days, there were no "sunbelt growth cities" so to speak, but Charles would encourage these northern captains of industry to open facilities in the Upstate. It worked. There is a long history of business with ties to the Upstate (GE has been in GV since the early 60's for example), which is in part why everything from the lazer to Pepto Bismol was invented in the Upstate. The longtime businesses established in the Upstate fed on themselves, bringing in headquarters and companies like Fluor & Fluor Nuclear Headquarters, Michelin Headquarters, BMW, Proterra, Cytec, Bausch & Lomb, Agfa, etc, etc. Obviously, having a North American Headquarters for a French company like Michelin and the only North Americian manufacturing and research facilities for a German company like BMW, created an explosion of international investment.

In addition, as you state above, the loss of basic textiles to China forced the entire Piedmont to diversify (Charlotte into banking, etc). Greenville both diversified, and morphed it's basic cotton spinning, "textile capital of the world" history into advanced, high tech textiles / advanced materials (ie: carbon fiber at Cytec).
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Old 10-07-2010, 11:06 AM
 
8,181 posts, read 13,266,005 times
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Originally Posted by gsupstate View Post
Read up on Charles Daniel as well. Fascinating history. A Greenville businessman that built Daniel Corp (Fuor) into one of the top 3 engineering firms in the world.

As early as the 1930's, Daniel would head north to the large cities (Boston, NYC, Philly, Chicago, etc) and make contacts with influential captains of industry. In those days, there were no "sunbelt growth cities" so to speak, but Charles would encourage these northern captains of industry to open facilities in the Upstate. It worked. There is a long history of business with ties to the Upstate (GE has been in GV since the early 60's for example), which is in part why everything from the lazer to Pepto Bismol was invented in the Upstate. The longtime businesses established in the Upstate fed on themselves, bringing in headquarters and companies like Fluor & Fluor Nuclear Headquarters, Michelin Headquarters, BMW, Proterra, Cytec, Bausch & Lomb, Agfa, etc, etc. Obviously, having a North American Headquarters for a French company like Michelin and the only North Americian manufacturing and research facilities for a German company like BMW, created an explosion of international investment.

In addition, as you state above, the loss of basic textiles to China forced the entire Piedmont to diversify (Charlotte into banking, etc). Greenville both diversified, and morphed it's basic cotton spinning, "textile capital of the world" history into advanced, high tech textiles / advanced materials (ie: carbon fiber at Cytec).

Interesting.. and that makes a lot of sense. I dont believe Columbia ever had a "big businessman or big business family" that would have influenced the local politics to push the City/Midlands to be more pro business. Being home to a military base, state government, and a university creates its own stable comfort zone. When I look at say Wilmington, Delaware and the influence that the Dupont Family had on that City and State. Delaware is probably one of the most pro business states in the Country.. I believe that most of the Fortune 500 companies are incorporated there though they may not have actual headquarters there. I drove through Wilmington on the way to Philadelphia and was shocked at how many skyscrapers banks, insurance, etc where sprouting up from this little old industrial city (population 70,000). Seems like much of it would not have been possible if it wasnt for the Dupont Company

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/b/b8/WilmingtonDelaware.JPG/265px-WilmingtonDelaware.JPG (broken link)

Last edited by Woodlands; 10-07-2010 at 11:16 AM..
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Old 10-07-2010, 11:18 AM
 
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Old 10-07-2010, 11:22 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodlands View Post
Interesting.. and that makes a lot of sense. I dont believe Columbia ever had a "big businessman or big business family" that would have influenced the local politics to push the City/Midlands to be more pro business. Being home to a military base, state government, and a university creates its own stable comfort zone. When I look at say Wilmington, Delaware and the influence that the Dupont Family had on that City and State. Delaware is probably one of the most pro business states in the Country.. I believe that most of the Fortune 500 companies are incorporated there though they may not have actual headquarters there. I drove through Wilmington on the way to Philadelphia and was shocked at how many skyscrapers banks, insurance, etc where sprouting up from this little old industrial city (population 70,000). Seems like much of it would not have been possible if it wasnt for the Dupont Company

I make it to Wilmington fairly often to work with AstraZeneca. Wilmington and Greenville remind me of each other in many ways (new downtown ballpark, restaurants that cater mainly to business travelers, size and height of downtown buildings, etc). Since this is an air service thread, I will say, the one negative in Wilmington is the air service (or lack of). Basically all, if not all, air service is through Philly's airport (Delta Connection had flight for a while to Wilmington, but I think that ended). Philly's airport is obviously a close drive, but the airport itself.....horrible....one of the worst runway layouts I've ever seen, which leads to plenty of delays.
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Old 10-07-2010, 12:45 PM
 
5,555 posts, read 15,329,977 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodlands View Post
...When I look at say Wilmington, Delaware and the influence that the Dupont Family had on that City and State. Delaware is probably one of the most pro business states in the Country.. I believe that most of the Fortune 500 companies are incorporated there though they may not have actual headquarters there. I drove through Wilmington on the way to Philadelphia and was shocked at how many skyscrapers banks, insurance, etc where sprouting up from this little old industrial city (population 70,000). Seems like much of it would not have been possible if it wasnt for the Dupont Company
Wilmington, DE, is also home to a very high concentration of credit card companies. While undoubtedly a nice place, the cost of living is ridiculously expensive there. A former co-worker's relative struggled to barely survive in Wilmington on a salary that would easily provide a comfortable lifestyle in South Carolina.
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Old 10-07-2010, 02:38 PM
 
435 posts, read 1,527,120 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gsupstate View Post
Read up on Charles Daniel as well. Fascinating history. A Greenville businessman that built Daniel Corp (Fuor) into one of the top 3 engineering firms in the world.

As early as the 1930's, Daniel would head north to the large cities (Boston, NYC, Philly, Chicago, etc) and make contacts with influential captains of industry. In those days, there were no "sunbelt growth cities" so to speak, but Charles would encourage these northern captains of industry to open facilities in the Upstate. It worked. There is a long history of business with ties to the Upstate (GE has been in GV since the early 60's for example), which is in part why everything from the lazer to Pepto Bismol was invented in the Upstate. The longtime businesses established in the Upstate fed on themselves, bringing in headquarters and companies like Fluor & Fluor Nuclear Headquarters, Michelin Headquarters, BMW, Proterra, Cytec, Bausch & Lomb, Agfa, etc, etc. Obviously, having a North American Headquarters for a French company like Michelin and the only North Americian manufacturing and research facilities for a German company like BMW, created an explosion of international investment.

In addition, as you state above, the loss of basic textiles to China forced the entire Piedmont to diversify (Charlotte into banking, etc). Greenville both diversified, and morphed it's basic cotton spinning, "textile capital of the world" history into advanced, high tech textiles / advanced materials (ie: carbon fiber at Cytec).
I don't think it's an accident the Upstate seems to have more than its fair share of business leaders, with names like Hipp, Barnet, and of course Milliken. I think the historically hardscrabble, more isolated nature of the Upstate almost required it if it wanted to prosper, unlike the Lowcountry which had the legacy of being a naturally trade-oriented port city with easy access to the outside world, or the Midlands with the capital/university and its own small trading operation on the Congaree. Even the Pee Dee has some business legacy with the Cokers, and even banking king Hugh McColl is from that region.

Columbia was an early leader in insurance (Colonial, Seibels Bruce, etc.) but for whatever reason this did not congeal into a broader business environment enough to come out from under the government-town shadow. In theory it could have been possible, since other state capitals like Des Moines and Hartford have become known largely for their insurance companies.
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Old 10-07-2010, 03:06 PM
 
Location: metro ATL
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Originally Posted by Columbiadata View Post
State support for RTP is why Charlotte hates Raleigh.
I'm not quite sure what you mean here. If you're using Raleigh as a euphemism for state government here, then state support for RTP isn't why Charlotte "hates" Raleigh; it's because Charlotte sometimes doesn't get its fair share of state funding when it comes to things like transportation because small-town interests still have significant sway in NC state politics, although it's nowhere near as bad as SC.
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Old 10-07-2010, 03:42 PM
 
Location: metro ATL
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chi2Midlands View Post
I was talking about this with a co-worker this morning. I think, referring to your last sentence, it's more the former than the latter. While you can argue that Greenville/Spartanburg is marginally better situated logistically being on the I-85 corridor between Charlotte & Atlanta, I think it largely boils down to Greenville being a business town, and Columbia, in comparison, just is not. I think part of it is the history of the Upstates textile industry's decline, and that motivated the Upstate to do something about it, and has transformed that economic anxiety into economic boosterism & development. Columbia, in contrast, has historically been a stable government town, and so it has never truly been challenged to do something to grow up to be something better. This despite Columbia having excellent highway and rail connections, and an relatively well-educated workforce.
That's pretty much it in a nutshell. Even now, the impetus for Columbia becoming more than what it is isn't due to outside economic forces having an adverse impact on the city, but rather the fear of getting left behind. I think the city has shown on a micro level that it can successfully take on a challenge when presented with it (e.g., the revitalization of the Vista), but strong leadership has always been a necessity. Columbia didn't really have that in Coble; he was more of a manager and administrator and one who didn't want to rock the boat too much so as not to tick certain people off. It remains to be seen if that much-needed strong leadership can arise now in order to take Columbia to the next level.

Quote:
To that extent, I think Columbia will need progressive (in the business sense) state, not just local, leadership to get us to the next level. Being the capital and not necessarily having as deep of a local booster base, I think the state may need to take a bigger role compared to the Upstate or Charleston. To take the nearest comparable success story, the Raleigh/Durham area with RTP was fostered with progressive governors like Luther Hodges and Terry Sanford along with local politicians, university heads, land owners, and business people. Of course, they did this 50 years ago, so we have to start soon the get the ball rolling over the next several decades. It may also take a charismatic, ambitious entrepreneur from the Midlands (beyond just the local real estate developers and law partners) to help as well - a Michael Dell or a Jim Goodknight, etc.
I think you have a point there. Another Southern capital that might serve as an apt example here is Austin. The University of Texas has played a very prominent role in the city's economic growth and development, but I don't know to what extent the state of Texas played a role in setting the stage for that growth.
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Old 10-07-2010, 04:13 PM
 
Location: Charleston, South Carolina
12,814 posts, read 18,642,076 times
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After all this info you wouldn't think Columbia has the state's largest GDP, since this is a Columbia thread. The Charlotte hating Raleigh thing is second-hand commentary that's based on what I have read. The two areas of the state don't like each other from what I've heard, and part of the reason is that Charlottetans (sp) perceive that state legislators do more for the RTA than for the "Metrolina" area. When I was living in D.C. and a friend and I drove to Philadelphia I was surprised by Wilmington's skyline, but I remember it being bigger than that and this was in the early 80s. It hasn't changed much and in fact looks smaller than I remember it. But I digress from the topic as others have. Sorry.

Last edited by Charlestondata; 10-07-2010 at 04:26 PM..
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