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Except a fourth of it is in the original downtown blocks… Draw a line connecting Elmwood down to Harden, whatever’s south is Downtown.
Hmm. Not back when the grid was mapped out. That was considered the far reaches of the city. The perception of what downtown is and how large it is is subject to change in any city as development incrementally expands in a dense format and defines itself as an additional part of the downtown in the bigger picture.
Hmm. Not back when the grid was mapped out. That was considered the far reaches of the city. The perception of what downtown is and how large it is is subject to change in any city as development incrementally expands in a dense format and defines itself as an additional part of the downtown in the bigger picture.
This is still the original grid, which today is what constitutes downtown. So. It was indeed when the grid was mapped out. Simple google searches produce results. And you’re right, but I wouldn’t consider the neck downtown. Again, it would be urban and dense. But that doesn’t mean it’s downtown. Sort of like (and I know the distances more extreme) how Atlanta has downtown and then there is Buckhead. Or Charlotte has uptown and then there is Ballantyne. It would just be something else all on its own. But this is an opinion, and they say you can’t argue those. So, to each their own.
I don’t know where downtown Charleston will begin in the eyes of people driving in from Summerville when Magnolia is built out for 10,000 residents and retail on the upper peninsula adjacent to I-26, but it is 191 acres and will be very urban density-wise and connected by street grid and pedestrian paths to the upper King Street/Meeting Street corridor.
It won't begin at Magnolia, just like no one driving in to DC from the south gets off the interstate in Arlington and asks how to get to the new Black history and culture museum or the Washington Monument. If anyone traveling to Charleston makes a similar mistake, they'll know they aren't downtown the minute they see how new Magnolia is from end to end with none of the city's most notable landmarks and attractions anywhere in sight. If anything, the terminus of I-26 will always serve as a reliable indicator of where Charleston truly begins.
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Originally Posted by BrandonCoombes
This is still the original grid, which today is what constitutes downtown. So. It was indeed when the grid was mapped out. Simple google searches produce results. And you’re right, but I wouldn’t consider the neck downtown. Again, it would be urban and dense. But that doesn’t mean it’s downtown. Sort of like (and I know the distances more extreme) how Atlanta has downtown and then there is Buckhead. Or Charlotte has uptown and then there is Ballantyne. It would just be something else all on its own. But this is an opinion, and they say you can’t argue those. So, to each their own.
A good example with Charlotte is South End, which has truly evolved into an urban extension of Uptown with increasing density and height (corporate headquarters are going to South End these days) but it still has a different quality than Uptown. And for Atlanta, it would be downtown and Midtown. Midtown is still very much known as its own distinct entity despite being adjacent to downtown with attractions and amenities that make it popular with visitors and new residents, even over downtown. In Baltimore, the Inner Harbor and Harbor East aren't downtown despite being adjacent to it. And so on and so forth.
Downtown Charleston is too historic and distinct for it to conceptually encompass Magnolia at full buildout IMO.
It won't begin at Magnolia, just like no one driving in to DC from the south gets off the interstate in Arlington and asks how to get to the new Black history and culture museum or the Washington Monument. If anyone traveling to Charleston makes a similar mistake, they'll know they aren't downtown the minute they see how new Magnolia is from end to end with none of the city's most notable landmarks and attractions anywhere in sight. If anything, the terminus of I-26 will always serve as a reliable indicator of where Charleston truly begins.
A good example with Charlotte is South End, which has truly evolved into an urban extension of Uptown with increasing density and height (corporate headquarters are going to South End these days) but it still has a different quality than Uptown. And for Atlanta, it would be downtown and Midtown. Midtown is still very much known as its own distinct entity despite being adjacent to downtown with attractions and amenities that make it popular with visitors and new residents, even over downtown. In Baltimore, the Inner Harbor and Harbor East aren't downtown despite being adjacent to it. And so on and so forth.
Downtown Charleston is too historic and distinct for it to conceptually encompass Magnolia at full buildout IMO.
In your Downtown and Midtown in Atl and Inner Harbor and Harbor East. Those areas are often accused of poaching residents and businesses from the former in many cases. I am not familiar with Charleston but I suspect that from a realtor perspective.. there is interest in "expanding downtown" or at least the prestige of it further and further north and to capitalize on any, if not spur more, rising values.
I was originally concerned that the same would happen in Columbia with Columbia Commons doing the same to downtown Columbia. It seems that, that wont be the case as much of the new development would have likely not occurred downtown because of lack of available land in the case of MUSC, older buildings to rehab and the ability to create a planned community
In your Downtown and Midtown in Atl and Inner Harbor and Harbor East. Those areas are often accused of poaching residents and businesses from the former in many cases. I am not familiar with Charleston but I suspect that from a realtor perspective.. there is interest in "expanding downtown" or at least the prestige of it further and further north and to capitalize on any, if not spur more, rising values.
I was originally concerned that the same would happen in Columbia with Columbia Commons doing the same to downtown Columbia. It seems that, that wont be the case as much of the new development would have likely not occurred downtown because of lack of available land in the case of MUSC, older buildings to rehab and the ability to create a planned community
You are right about Atlanta, and it wasn't just Midtown but also Buckhead and Perimeter that grew and thrived at downtown's expense. Downtown has gotten the lion's share of new attractions such as the aquarium and the other museums surrounding Centennial Olympic Park, Margaritaville, the ferris wheel, etc. But these days, there are some exciting developments underway downtown that will hopefully restore it to its former glory and then some.
I certainly consider the core of Charleston to extend beyond downtown or the historic district (the peninsula south of Calhoun), especially as north King got extensively developed. The peninsula from the terminus of I-26 to the tip at the Battery could legitimately be considered to be "greater downtown Charleston" for the most part since it is cohesively connected. Magnolia will in all likelihood be considered as an adjacent core neighborhood but with I-26 forming a border from the other side of the industrial neck may prevent it from being considered a true extension of downtown also.
It is about perception. The proximity is part of it no doubt. What comes to mind for me is that I’ll never forget one day a contractor on his phone in my house just north of Harrison Road a mile from Richland Mall telling another customer he was downtown at the moment. He lived in Northeast near Blythewood.
You are right about Atlanta, and it wasn't just Midtown but also Buckhead and Perimeter that grew and thrived at downtown's expense. Downtown has gotten the lion's share of new attractions such as the aquarium and the other museums surrounding Centennial Olympic Park, Margaritaville, the ferris wheel, etc. But these days, there are some exciting developments underway downtown that will hopefully restore it to its former glory and then some.
I certainly consider the core of Charleston to extend beyond downtown or the historic district (the peninsula south of Calhoun), especially as north King got extensively developed. The peninsula from the terminus of I-26 to the tip at the Battery could legitimately be considered to be "greater downtown Charleston" for the most part since it is cohesively connected. Magnolia will in all likelihood be considered as an adjacent core neighborhood but with I-26 forming a border from the other side of the industrial neck may prevent it from being considered a true extension of downtown also.
Not to dump on Downtown ATL.. but I was down there this past fall and its been over a decade since I had been there last. There are lots of new buildings and the streetcar but the streets seemed pretty empty. Maybe its the effects of the pandemic or just the section of town I was in. Other than Walburgers and Hooters.. There was nothing down there. At night I went over to a Waffle House near Centennial Park which was the only thing open and it is probably the only Waffle House in the south with a take out window. I was hassled every 50ft by homeless dudes but thats with any big city...
Not to dump on Downtown ATL.. but I was down there this past fall and its been over a decade since I had been there last. There are lots of new buildings and the streetcar but the streets seemed pretty empty. Maybe its the effects of the pandemic or just the section of town I was in. Other than Walburgers and Hooters.. There was nothing down there. At night I went over to a Waffle House near Centennial Park which was the only thing open and it is probably the only Waffle House in the south with a take out window. I was hassled every 50ft by homeless dudes but thats with any big city...
Yeah the pandemic has a lot to do with it because downtown hosts a lot of conventions and large gatherings. But the part of downtown that's slated to get a shot in the arm will be south downtown with redevelopment of existing properties and the proposed Centennial Yards development. Downtown Atlanta is really several distinct smaller districts with their own character and personality in one area without much synergy between them at this point.
Yeah the pandemic has a lot to do with it because downtown hosts a lot of conventions and large gatherings. But the part of downtown that's slated to get a shot in the arm will be south downtown with redevelopment of existing properties and the proposed Centennial Yards development. Downtown Atlanta is really several distinct smaller districts with their own character and personality in one area without much synergy between them at this point.
Question with Columbia. which area you could see getting like a New Downtown Spot that's not Bull Street?
IMO I could see South Columbia or The Riverfront kinda becoming the New Downtown if Developments keeps up at the pace they are going at now.
I think if the City just Invest in the Riverfront I can Imagine a line of Hotels, Condos, Apartments Shops and what not lining up the Riverfront from Canalside to Blossom Street
With South Columbia I could see the Areas around the Stadium getting more Bigger and Denser development over the coming Decade if USC Dont botch it's expansion. I would love to see those 2 areas the Riverfront and South Columbia become our Version of SouthEnd or Buckhead
Question with Columbia. which area you could see getting like a New Downtown Spot that's not Bull Street?
IMO I could see South Columbia or The Riverfront kinda becoming the New Downtown if Developments keeps up at the pace they are going at now.
I think if the City just Invest in the Riverfront I can Imagine a line of Hotels, Condos, Apartments Shops and what not lining up the Riverfront from Canalside to Blossom Street
With South Columbia I could see the Areas around the Stadium getting more Bigger and Denser development over the coming Decade if USC Dont botch it's expansion. I would love to see those 2 areas the Riverfront and South Columbia become our Version of SouthEnd or Buckhead
Even if the Riverfront or South Main Street were to get more development they wouldn't become the "New Downtown". South Main Street will still remain USC no matter what. They own most of the land and any development happening that way will be USC developments whether it's student housing or educational buildings. The riverfront would just become another district in the downtown area which would probably be more of an extension of the Vista. There are also height restrictions that would not allow the area to become too dense.
The BullStreet area and South Main Street have the potential to become the new "Uptown" however. Bull Street already is putting the business, housing, retail, and entertainment aspects in place now, and with that great of an influx of people it could rival Main Street and the Vista(It would be much quieter though). With the USC School of Medicine going there that would also add more to the North side of that campus. More development could also expand past Colonial Drive and with a partnership with Prisma health which could see more high rise buildings whether that be apartments or research facilities. There is still lots of land in that district that can be developed in the future and the skyline could look similar to Atlanta's with a distinct gap between downtown and Uptown. North Main I believe has height restrictions in place but that area seems like it could feed off of the energy from Bull Street. There does need to be more cohesiveness between the two maybe with a road, bridge, tunnel, or something that provides better access from North Main to Bull Street.
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