News, Ohio nuns plan pro-immigration billboards (Columbus, Cleveland: unemployed, neighborhood, university)

[jbcmh81]

Originally Posted by Natural510

jb the difference between then and now was a dearth of readily available labor compared to then vs now. We're no longer part of an Industrial Revolution, and manufacturing in this country is a shadow of what it was in the past. Given the fact the state of Ohio was pretty much built on farming and manufacturing, it is less educated than other states of its population size. Ohio needs more educated workers, whether domestic or imported from other states/countries, not more unskilled/undereducated laborers.

You seem to be forgetting a basic principle: supply and demand. Ultimately, if Ohio doesn't have the jobs for these people, they won't stay anyway. This is what happened to Mexican immigration the last five years. It has basically plummeted if not reversed because of the bad economy in the US and the relatively good one in Mexico. It's all about economics.

[jbcmh81]

Originally Posted by RememberMee

If growth is so wonderful why do they seek cure for cancer? How much more should Ohio grow? 20 millions, 40, 400 millions, to infinity and beyond? If Ohio cannot solve economic woes of 11 millions of its residents who said that taking care of 60 millions would be any easier? This growth mantra is absolutely insane.

Where did I make the argument that perpetual growth was good? But neither is population decline. Do you think Cleveland or Detroit are more awesome because they lost 50% of their population?

[Zen_master]

Originally Posted by jbcmh81

You seem to be forgetting a basic principle: supply and demand. Ultimately, if Ohio doesn't have the jobs for these people, they won't stay anyway. This is what happened to Mexican immigration the last five years. It has basically plummeted if not reversed because of the bad economy in the US and the relatively good one in Mexico. It's all about economics.

Not necessarily. Numerous studies over the decades have shown that the more generous unemployment benefits are the higher and more sustained the unemployment rate is likely to be. Now extrapolate this to an immigrant population that hails from second and third world countries and ask yourself if they're likely to leave when even public assistance and community clinics are head and shoulders above anything in their place of origin.

[WRosado]

I welcome the immigrants. Why single out Ohio trying to bring its population numbers up by immigration? Read about what has been happening in cities like Philadelphia and Allentown and Hazelton, Pennsylvania the last few years. Dayton is a perfect example of Allentown. I lived in Florida, do you know how many immigrants there had a higher education? I live near a neighborhood in Cleveland where I see people from every corner of the globe with high-end degrees. From lawyers working at the nation's largest law firm, to doctors working at some of the world's best hospitals at the Cleveland Clinic. Ohio is no different than any other state as far as bringing in immigrants, whether they are educated or not. So if Ohio can't support its 11.5 million people already here, what are states like Florida with 19 million residents who are even less educated suppose to do with an even higher influx of immigrants? Stop portraying this as an Ohio problem, because it is a national problem.

[jbcmh81]

Originally Posted by Zen_master

Take a trip to your local Wal-Mart or any grocery store up off of Morse Rd around I-71 and tell me who you see using food stamps/SNAP cards, etc. Take a look in the parking lot at the cars and note the time of day. You can pretty much assess the earnings power (income tax) and likelihood of a job (time of day) if you're observant enough.

Note I didn't make a personal value judgement in my original post. I only repeated what has been stated by our elected officials time and again. When they talk about immigration in Ohio they are trying to keep foreign born graduates in math and science at American universities from returning to their place of origin and taking their skills with them

Wait, so you have no evidence but assumptions made about a few people you see at the Morse Road Wal-Mart, but I'm supposed to take your word for it that this is reality?

I actually worked in retail, from cashier all the way up to store manager, and the VAST majority of people on food stamps were your everyday regular native Americans. This is, of course, anecdotal as well, so take it for what its worth. I am not going to demand policy is set on my limited experience, however.

[WRosado]

Originally Posted by jbcmh81

Where did I make the argument that perpetual growth was good? But neither is population decline. Do you think Cleveland or Detroit are more awesome because they lost 50% of their population?

Cleveland and Detroit have nothing to do with this. I do not understand underscoring places to make a point.

[jbcmh81]

Originally Posted by Zen_master

Not necessarily. Numerous studies over the decades have shown that the more generous unemployment benefits are the higher and more sustained the unemployment rate is likely to be. Now extrapolate this to an immigrant population that hails from second and third world countries and ask yourself if they're likely to leave when even public assistance and community clinics are head and shoulders above anything in their place of origin.

Again, you're arguing for reform on welfare and other social safety net programs. If it's so easy to get and so wonderful to live off of for extended periods of time, then clearly it's not immigrants who are the problem in that scenario.

[jbcmh81]

Originally Posted by WRosado

Cleveland and Detroit have nothing to do with this. I do not understand underscoring places to make a point.

The poster said that perpetual growth is bad, but my point is so is population decline. Sorry, but Cleveland is a pretty obvious Ohio example when it comes to population loss. It doesn't make Cleveland a bad place, but clearly losing all those people was not a net positive.

[WRosado]

Originally Posted by jbcmh81

The poster said that perpetual growth is bad, but my point is so is population decline. Sorry, but Cleveland is a pretty obvious Ohio example when it comes to population loss. It doesn't make Cleveland a bad place, but clearly losing all those people was not a net positive.

Really? I am pretty sure that is obvious. So mention the plethora of neighborhoods and areas within Columbus' radius that have and continue to lose population. I am still wondering what Cleveland and Detroit had to do with this topic. It is still putting an area down where it certainly wasn't warranted. I guess Cleveland just isn't "awesome".

[Zen_master]

Originally Posted by jbcmh81

Wait, so you have no evidence but assumptions made about a few people you see at the Morse Road Wal-Mart, but I'm supposed to take your word for it that this is reality?

I actually worked in retail, from cashier all the way up to store manager, and the VAST majority of people on food stamps were your everyday regular native Americans. This is, of course, anecdotal as well, so take it for what its worth. I am not going to demand policy is set on my limited experience, however.

I don't disagree. Statistically speaking caucasians are the largest recipients of government assistance on a purely nominal basis. This should be no surprise as they are also the largest demographic group in the nation comprising over 70% of all respondents to the 2010 census.

At this point I get the impression you're arguing for the sake of arguing and whatever point you're trying to make is becoming lost. Let's go back to my original post. It started off with the declarative statement "not all immigration is created equal" and then used mosaic theory to piece together observations of the large immigrant population of Somali refugees juxtaposed next to statements our elected leaders have made on several occassions. Using this mosaic theory it is not a stretch that the refugees do not fall into the category of immigration the State of Ohio is focusing on when they stress economic development. That's my point. I don't understand what you're arguing about.