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No articulation of what you're speaking on just a bland assertion that Charlotte is better. Which again, it does not even matter if it is because Charlotte is in a different part of the country, relative to what this thread is about, which is whether the number 3 city in the Midwest will ever surpass the number 2 city in population. Charlotte does not figure into this conversation whatsoever other than the fact that people are in the thread and boosting the city. Just because.
Easy to sit there in Norfolk, VA (says that's where you're from) where it actually is nice, and say these things! The tidewater region is where it's at for things to do. Hopefully my daughter gets a soccer commit to Old Dominion University so I can possibly move there. She's tired of playing soccer in the bitter cold and indoors.
Easy to sit there in Norfolk, VA (says that's where you're from) where it actually is nice, and say these things! The tidewater region is where it's at for things to do. Hopefully my daughter gets a soccer commit to Old Dominion University so I can possibly move there. She's tired of playing soccer in the bitter cold and indoors.
I'm originally from Akron.
It is nice in Tidewater. Some people leave here for NC; they say that the taxes are cheaper there and the cost of living overall is lower.
That's not the 2018 population, that's the Census-estimated population from 2017. The 2018 estimate is from MORPC. Your link is 1 year behind. And Columbus was in 14th place in 2017, not 15th.
Ok so I'm off a year but the gist of what I said remains accurate, Austin is beyond Columbus.
Austin is also approaching 100 square miles larger. Columbus would easily be the larger city at the same size.
In any case, in the most recent year growth we know for sure, 2016-2017, Columbus added more people at the city level than Austin even despite the different sizes. Austin still grew faster in the metro, so I guess you can cheer suburban sprawl.
Also, it's still in Texas. No thanks.
Austin, Tx land area is 272 sq.miles vs. Columbus 223 square miles, so your math is WAY off. Second, that doesn't detract from people moving there because the MSA is still larger.
The "sprawl" is such a TIRED argument for north American cities. Second, with regard to last year's growth, I reply....ONE year does NOT a trend make! Third, Austin is competing against OTHER metros also growing at above average rates, D/FW, Houston, San Antonio. Columbus competes against Cleveland and Cincy and Pittsburgh, with Pittsburgh likely being the most competitive. Cleveland metro is losing people. Cincy is flatlined.
Outside of State government and THE Ohio State U, the employment base doesn't have the global reach that one sees in ATX. https://columbusregion.com/market-re...est-employers/
Chase, Honda Motors, L Brands, Cardinal Health and Huntington Bancshares and the employers with over 5,000 associates each.
Compare that to Austin - https://www.austinchamber.com/econom...file/employers
Apple, Dell, Samsung, IBM and Ascension Seton have over 6,000 employees each. Apple will be doubling their presence in 3 years. Google just bought a new 37 story tower in downtown Austin. Amazon now around 3,000 employees just leased a new 20 story tower in north Austin. Facebook as two locations as does Indeed.com. Whole Foods is headquartered in Austin.
Eh, I wouldn't be so sure about that. Charlotte only added 32 more people 2016-2017 than Columbus did. Columbus' population growth seems to be speeding up, while Charlotte's may be slowing. Still have to watch the trends, but it very well may take longer than 6 years for Charlotte to pass it. And as with Austin, Charlotte's municipal boundary is much bigger than Columbus'. The gap between them would be much larger at the same size.
In any case, Columbus is unlikely to lose its national ranking. It's been growing faster on average than San Francisco and Jacksonville, FL, 2 cities that are currently ahead of it. See below:
Columbus vs. San Francisco in 2010: -18,202
Columbus vs. San Francisco in 2017: -5,193
Average annual Columbus gain 2010-2017: +1,858
At a similar rate into the near future, Columbus should pass SF by 2020 or 2021.
Columbus vs. Jacksonville in 2010: -34,751
Columbus vs. Jacksonville in 2017: -12,892
Average annual Columbus gain 2010-2017: +3,123
At a similar rate into the near future, Columbus should pass Jacksonville by 2021 or 2022.
Other than Charlotte, there are no other cities below Columbus that are a threat for at least the next few decades- even Seattle- so Columbus will probably settle into its current ranking of 14th or 13th... or 12th if it can catch up to San Jose, but that's probably a good 15 years or so distant.
This will be interesting to watch. Charlotte has to worry that its heavily concentrated in Financial Services with BofA, Wells Fargo and soon, the new BB&T/SunTrust HQ (new awful name Truist Bank). When Wachovia was acquired by Wells Fargo, a big concern was job loss. An economic downturn will directly impact banking. Columbus appears a little more diversified AND being the state capital, with a big University campus, the economy tends to be more stable that of non-capital metros.
It's also like Columbus in that if you don't specify what state its located in, large portions of the country won't know what you're talking about. It's also similar to Columbus in that it is a few hours drive from two more prominent, amenity-rich metros.
Ways that it differs from Columbus is that its relevance still hinges on a convention that could leave for another city at any time, and that it is a city approaching 1 million without professional sports or a prime time airport.
Austin is unusual in being the size it is with no pro-sports though as Columbus was for a long time, the Flagship U of the state, UT-Austin, serves as a proxy in some ways. Austin also appears to be getting a MLS franchise. Last, Austinites follow the Spurs 75 miles to the south. Austin also hosts several national/global entertainment events - SouthbySouthwest in the Spring which attracts artists, Tech and Political leaders. The Austin City Limits Music Fest in the fall and the U.S. Grand Prix in November which always has concerts as part of the festivities. Austin has hosted the X Games and to the west of the city is a series of lakes for water sports.
With regard to the Air travel links, Austin built a new airport about ten years ago and just opened a new south terminal with room to grow further. The Austin airport offers nonstop service to more than 50 destinations, including New York City, Las Vegas, Boston, Los Angeles and Washington, D.C. International nonstop destinations include Frankfurt, Germany; Cancun, Mexico; and London, England. British Airways flies nonstop to Austin. Also, one can drive 75 miles from downtown to San Antonio, which I know some do as necessary , if Austin's airport is too busy.
Location: livin' the good life on America's favorite island
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Quote:
Originally Posted by walker1962
This will be interesting to watch. Charlotte has to worry that its heavily concentrated in Financial Services with BofA, Wells Fargo and soon, the new BB&T/SunTrust HQ (new awful name Truist Bank). When Wachovia was acquired by Wells Fargo, a big concern was job loss. An economic downturn will directly impact banking. Columbus appears a little more diversified AND being the state capital, with a big University campus, the economy tends to be more stable that of non-capital metros.
Companies continue to move to the Queen City. Honeywell locating here and Lowe’s is locating their new Tech Hub in Charlotte, (hire 2,000 employees). Charlotte is a leading tech hub and folks continue to move here in droves, real estate market is strong. Houses in my neighborhood ($600k+) sell within 20-30 days and in some cases 1 day. Mostly Yankees and lots of Buckeye fans. https://www.genesis10.com/blogs/a-ma...or-tech-talent
Outside of State government and THE Ohio State U, the employment base doesn't have the global reach that one sees in ATX. https://columbusregion.com/market-re...est-employers/
Chase, Honda Motors, L Brands, Cardinal Health and Huntington Bancshares and the employers with over 5,000 associates each.
Compare that to Austin - https://www.austinchamber.com/econom...file/employers
Apple, Dell, Samsung, IBM and Ascension Seton have over 6,000 employees each. Apple will be doubling their presence in 3 years. Google just bought a new 37 story tower in downtown Austin. Amazon now around 3,000 employees just leased a new 20 story tower in north Austin. Facebook as two locations as does Indeed.com. Whole Foods is headquartered in Austin.
Trying to figure out your argument here. A few notes on what you are saying.
First, the list for corporate employment for Austin includes a large regional health system (Ascension). That is a stretch to include in your analysis if you are not including Ohio Health and/or Nationwide Children's Hospitals and/or Mt. Carmel Health Systems. Not sure why any are not included in the Columbus CoC list, but essentially, I would be shocked if the four big players (OSU Medical - separate in and of itself in size and scope from the actual university; Ohio Health; Mt. Carmel Health Systems and Nationwide Children's) didn't combine for 10K+ in employment numbers.
Second, Apple will need to keep its promise to build and maintain its workforce. Apple is hitting headwinds already with lower market share in phones and tablets, let alone if the government (American or European) require tech companies to divest or breakup some of their offerings.
In many cases of corporate tax breaks, companies fail to produce the number of employee openings or fill open positions, which can negatively impact growth and essentially gives a blank check to corporate moves into shiny new office towers. A big reason I'm not a fan. Also, growth too fast from these could keep people from seeking jobs in these markets as even despite corporate investment, people cannot afford to make an investment of such magnitude as moving from outside a state or even metro. Even with low unemployment, it is becoming even harder to make such moves worthwhile, even with incentives, as a lot of researchers and analysts are finding a recession is near the top of the deck of cards. Unless I am coming from a pricier metro, few can realistically afford to live/work in the Austin area. The same is increasingly being felt of Columbus.
Google will have similar headwinds as well, assuming that they are just entering the market as a large or enterprise scale employer for the region.
Third, I will give you Dell, that being probably the closest comparison to Chase's Operations HQ near Polaris as well as other offices scattered around Columbus. But IBM and Samsung (Semiconductors) are also facing severe headwinds. IBM just by nature of being bloated and facing a slew of competition from places like Amazon's AWS division, Cisco, China, etc. and Samsung due to other semiconductor manufacturers overseas driving down equipment prices and hurting bottom lines. Amazon's presence likely is logistical outside of the recently acquired Whole Foods corporate operations. If there is a tech downturn, it could hurt Austin depending on if companies either a) go under, b) are broken up - either by DC or Wall Street, or c) other factors
Fourth, the other factors being a general downtown in the economic outlook or possibly the metro getting to a point that "the rent/mortgage is just too dang high!" By that, and I think it is also affecting Columbus as well, if builders don't invest in affordable, or at least cheaper-scaled housing, young workers won't be able to afford to live, let alone contemplate starting families, in many of these "new" cities and their urban playgrounds. It is already a problem for many in my generation that continue to live in NYC, SF, or LA.
Fifth and finally, the claim of "Global Reach." Chase is one of the largest financial institutions in the world, akin to HSBC. In fact, other than HSBC at number 5, Chase is the one of the largest open market bank in the world (Numbers 1-4 are all Chinese-owned [aka state-owned] banks). The only other US-based bank on this list is Bank of America at number 9. So there is that to ponder.
Honda is one of the worlds largest manufacturers, and is heavily involved in automotive, as well as other forms of manufacturing. I say automotive because Honda is pretty much centered on car and SUV development and production around Marysville. But other production occurs for engines, R&D, motorcycles, etc. That is not a name to throw around lightly in any industry with Japanese involvement. Short of corporate services in Torrance, CA, most of Honda's meat and potatoes in US Ops is run in and out of Marysville. While probably a pipe dream, I bet Ohio's jobs and development board is constantly plotting how they could get the rest of Team Honda to Columbus' metro (or the state in general).
L Brands owns or has created international clothing lines that (for better or worse) scream America. Victoria's Secret. Bath & Body Works. Abercrombie & Fitch - still HQ'd in Columbus. Justice. Lane Bryant. The Limited (RIP Wexner's original brand). Many of these retailers are franchised or have corporate owned locations overseas in Europe, Asia, Africa, South America, Australia, etc. And where you cannot find an A&F store, you can always order online?
Cardinal Health is an international leader in pharmaceutical and hospital operational services. Considering they are one of the largest (Consistently Top 25, I think) Fortune 500 companies, that is not something to sneeze at - no pun intended.
The one that is probably the most "regional" of the group would be Huntington Bank. Still, it is a large institution that is certainly a too big to fail organization.
In reality, both metros have 4 players with over 6,000 employees based on numbers in respect to the individual CoC websites. That should have been the point, IMO.
P.S. You forgot Nationwide's 13,000 employees in your original comment.
First, the list for corporate employment for Austin includes a large regional health system (Ascension). That is a stretch to include in your analysis if you are not including Ohio Health and/or Nationwide Children's Hospitals and/or Mt. Carmel Health Systems. Not sure why any are not included in the Columbus CoC list, but essentially, I would be shocked if the four big players (OSU Medical - separate in and of itself in size and scope from the actual university; Ohio Health; Mt. Carmel Health Systems and Nationwide Children's) didn't combine for 10K+ in employment numbers.
Companies continue to move to the Queen City. Honeywell locating here and Lowe’s is locating their new Tech Hub in Charlotte, (hire 2,000 employees). Charlotte is a leading tech hub and folks continue to move here in droves, real estate market is strong. Houses in my neighborhood ($600k+) sell within 20-30 days and in some cases 1 day. Mostly Yankees and lots of Buckeye fans. https://www.genesis10.com/blogs/a-ma...or-tech-talent
If you believe the Census, NC sent the Columbus metro more people than the other way around. I know I've probably mentioned that. Not sure if they're from Charlotte or other parts of the state, but this would go back to the idea that it has nothing to do with weather.
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