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Really? Please show me one thread where a Clevelander suggested Ohio should be broken up and Cleveland be its own state or region. If you can find one such comment, it's a distinctly minority opinion. Unlike in northern California or in Texas, I've never seen an article proposing such a split nor have I ever heard anybody propose such an idea.
IMO, your imaginary claim is merely another attempt, conscious or not, to paint Cleveland and Clevelanders in a negative light.
I've never even thought about a split-up, even though I'm appalled by the indifference among you and other posters in this forum to both the consequences of the Republican Toll Road through northern Ohio and Indiana and to the trashing of Lake Erie by ag interests. The reality is that northern Ohio politicians and newspapers surprisingly have been disgustingly tolerant of these two issues. This is changing, however, as more northern Ohio residents are becoming appalled by these two issues. (The attitudes of Northern Ohio's leadership, often Republican leaning, on these two issues is no different to the silence of eastern and southeastern Ohio political leadership and newspapers on the long-term environmental consequences of fracking and the injection of radioactive fracking waste into Ohio aquifers; I care more about the fracking issues than I do about the Lake Erie pollution and the Republican Toll Road, because the latter two issues can be rectified, and I don't believe the issues posed by radioactive fracking waste water injections are as easily remediable.)
Clearly, from canals to railroads to freeways to commercial and cultural ties, there is a significant attachment of northern Ohio to certainly central Ohio and even to southern Ohio.
Do you deny that northeastern Ohio, founded as the Connecticut Western Reserve, has a more northeastern influence than the rest of Ohio, especially southern Ohio???
I'll address your other charges when I get the time.
Of course the toll road runs through the northern part of the state right through industrial Cleveland, Akron, Youngstown and Toledo. Guess what city has become a distribution center hub? Columbus, hard to believe.
Forget about making connections with CT or anything east of Cleveland; no one wants to hear or admit this. There's an attitude about Cleveland in Ohio and most of the U.S. The city everyone hates but no one has been to.
Really? Please show me one thread where a Clevelander suggested Ohio should be broken up and Cleveland be its own state or region. If you can find one such comment, it's a distinctly minority opinion. Unlike in northern California or in Texas, I've never seen an article proposing such a split nor have I ever heard anybody propose such an idea.
IMO, your imaginary claim is merely another attempt, conscious or not, to paint Cleveland and Clevelanders in a negative light.
I've never even thought about a split-up, even though I'm appalled by the indifference among you and other posters in this forum to both the consequences of the Republican Toll Road through northern Ohio and Indiana and to the trashing of Lake Erie by ag interests. The reality is that northern Ohio politicians and newspapers surprisingly have been disgustingly tolerant of these two issues. This is changing, however, as more northern Ohio residents are becoming appalled by these two issues. (The attitudes of Northern Ohio's leadership, often Republican leaning, on these two issues is no different to the silence of eastern and southeastern Ohio political leadership and newspapers on the long-term environmental consequences of fracking and the injection of radioactive fracking waste into Ohio aquifers; I care more about the fracking issues than I do about the Lake Erie pollution and the Republican Toll Road, because the latter two issues can be rectified, and I don't believe the issues posed by radioactive fracking waste water injections are as easily remediable.)
Clearly, from canals to railroads to freeways to commercial and cultural ties, there is a significant attachment of northern Ohio to certainly central Ohio and even to southern Ohio.
Do you deny that northeastern Ohio, founded as the Connecticut Western Reserve, has a more northeastern influence than the rest of Ohio, especially southern Ohio???
I'll address your other charges when I get the time.
It was a few years ago, but there was a thread titled something to the affect of "Should Cleveland be in its own state?" I'll have to find it, but it definitely existed. The premise was that the rest of the state sucked all the money from NEO and that the area didn't really have anything in common with the southern 2/3rds. Since then, that idea or some other version has come up occasionally.
I just said I like Cleveland, and I don't feel like the posters here are really all that representative of most of the people there. You're probably right that such views are in the minority in the general population, but what we're really talking about is the people who post here.
I am not indifferent, I just don't think you're placing the real blame where it lies. You seem to be blaming the rest of the state when it is your own representatives that seem to have failed you. I don't know what you expect people here to do about it. How about starting some kind of petition to get that changed?
Cleveland is more industrial in feeling, but I don't necessarily equate that to the Northeast, regardless of what state originally claimed the area. I know some of you really want me to agree with this idea, but I really just don't. That's just my opinion, but Cleveland, for me, just feels like a more blue collar, industrial version of your basic Midwestern city, and there isn't anything wrong with that.
It was a few years ago, but there was a thread titled something to the affect of "Should Cleveland be in its own state?" I'll have to find it, but it definitely existed. The premise was that the rest of the state sucked all the money from NEO and that the area didn't really have anything in common with the southern 2/3rds. Since then, that idea or some other version has come up occasionally.
I just said I like Cleveland, and I don't feel like the posters here are really all that representative of most of the people there. You're probably right that such views are in the minority in the general population, but what we're really talking about is the people who post here.
I am not indifferent, I just don't think you're placing the real blame where it lies. You seem to be blaming the rest of the state when it is your own representatives that seem to have failed you. I don't know what you expect people here to do about it. How about starting some kind of petition to get that changed?
Cleveland is more industrial in feeling, but I don't necessarily equate that to the Northeast, regardless of what state originally claimed the area. I know some of you really want me to agree with this idea, but I really just don't. That's just my opinion, but Cleveland, for me, just feels like a more blue collar, industrial version of your basic Midwestern city, and there isn't anything wrong with that.
I saw that thread. It was started by Cleverfield. It was one thread, not the "many" that you said existed.
And Cleverfield also suggested as part of his proposal adding Cincinnati to Kentucky. It was a typical c-d thread about conjecture and thinking out loud for entertainment.
Interestingly, when I read it, its emphasis was on "getting things done," lamenting the different political philosophies in southern vs. northern Ohio.
The following wasn't the crux of Cleverfield's argument, and perhaps never mentioned in the thread, but, of course, you are never, never wrong (like your argument that using casino revenues in Columbus to support the Blue Jackets isn't a use of "public funds").
<< The premise was that the rest of the state sucked all the money from NEO and that the area didn't really have anything in common with the southern 2/3rds. Since then, that idea or some other version has come up occasionally. >>
As I said, splitting Cleveland into a separate state is something that I've never heard discussed, let alone in any media that I've ever seen.
At best, it's a grand exaggeration by you to paint Clevelanders in an unfavorable light, perhaps based on your memory of Cleverfield's proposal.
Candidly, all Ohioans should recognize unfair and harmful laws and policies and be opposed to them, such as the Republican Toll Road, the injection of radioactive fracking waste, and the trashing of Lake Erie. It doesn't matter whether Ohio political and media leaders are failing the public and thereby allowing long-term injuy to the entire state.
Sadly, much of the industry has left Cleveland, and what's left, even the steel mill, is very high tech.
It was a few years ago, but there was a thread titled something to the affect of "Should Cleveland be in its own state?" I'll have to find it, but it definitely existed. The premise was that the rest of the state sucked all the money from NEO and that the area didn't really have anything in common with the southern 2/3rds. Since then, that idea or some other version has come up occasionally.
Evidently, the "secession" discussions of several years ago were started by someone proposing that Cincinnati should go its own way.
Interestingly, the economic discussion about Columbus siphoning public dollars from the rest of the Ohio were not focused at all on Cleveland, but on Cincinnati and Hamilton County versus Columbus and Franklin County.
See posts Motorman posts 178, 192 and 201, and posts 265 and on in the Cleverfield thread.
Did you check the Cleverfield thread and realize that your accusations against Clevelanders were misplaced and inaccurate and actually your venom should have been directed against Cincinnati partisans, who, by the way, made some good points IMO?
I saw that thread. It was started by Cleverfield. It was one thread, not the "many" that you said existed.
And Cleverfield also suggested as part of his proposal adding Cincinnati to Kentucky. It was a typical c-d thread about conjecture and thinking out loud for entertainment.
Interestingly, when I read it, its emphasis was on "getting things done," lamenting the different political philosophies in southern vs. northern Ohio.
The following wasn't the crux of Cleverfield's argument, and perhaps never mentioned in the thread, but, of course, you are never, never wrong (like your argument that using casino revenues in Columbus to support the Blue Jackets isn't a use of "public funds").
<< The premise was that the rest of the state sucked all the money from NEO and that the area didn't really have anything in common with the southern 2/3rds. Since then, that idea or some other version has come up occasionally. >>
As I said, splitting Cleveland into a separate state is something that I've never heard discussed, let alone in any media that I've ever seen.
At best, it's a grand exaggeration by you to paint Clevelanders in an unfavorable light, perhaps based on your memory of Cleverfield's proposal.
Candidly, all Ohioans should recognize unfair and harmful laws and policies and be opposed to them, such as the Republican Toll Road, the injection of radioactive fracking waste, and the trashing of Lake Erie. It doesn't matter whether Ohio political and media leaders are failing the public and thereby allowing long-term injuy to the entire state.
Sadly, much of the industry has left Cleveland, and what's left, even the steel mill, is very high tech.
I said there have been many threads in which that view was pushed, not many threads with a specific title like that. I can't believe, though, that you're trying to deny what the thread was about when it was right there in the damn title and it was discussed at length how NEO was getting screwed over. Come on. Whether or not everyone was completely serious about breaking the state up, the complaining was certainly real enough.
Are you stalking me or something on other boards? The casino revenue discussion was opinions. I disagreed with one viewpoint. Many disagreed with me. That is fine and everyone moved on. I never said once there or here that I am never wrong about anything, so I don't know what you're talking about. I get you have a problem with me, but you don't need to make things up. We're adults.
I actually view Clevelanders in general pretty favorably. Some of the posters here... probably less so. But this forum isn't exactly real life.
I'm also generally opposed to pretty much anything Republicans do, so we probably agree on a lot of that.
Interestingly, the economic discussion about Columbus siphoning public dollars from the rest of the Ohio were not focused at all on Cleveland, but on Cincinnati and Hamilton County versus Columbus and Franklin County.
See posts Motorman posts 178, 192 and 201, and posts 265 and on in the Cleverfield thread.
Did you check the Cleverfield thread and realize that your accusations against Clevelanders were misplaced and inaccurate and actually your venom should have been directed against Cincinnati partisans, who, by the way, made some good points IMO?
While I think this view is more prevalent with Cleveland posters, I'm not going to deny that there are certainly those from Cincinnati, and probably elsewhere, that think that way. You're absolutely right that there are some Cincinnati posters who look down on Columbus just as much as some from Cleveland do. I would say that there are those from Columbus who look down on the other two, but honestly, who else would be considered a consistent regular poster in the Columbus forum other than me? The guy from Minneapolis is hardly a fan. And I don't think I spend much time hating on Cleveland or Cincinnati at all. I respect both other 2-Cs, have always enjoyed my time there, want nothing but the best for them and think they only make Ohio better for being in it.
I still don't think Cleveland feels like Connecticut.
While I think this view is more prevalent with Cleveland posters, I'm not going to deny that there are certainly those from Cincinnati, and probably elsewhere, that think that way. You're absolutely right that there are some Cincinnati posters who look down on Columbus just as much as some from Cleveland do. I would say that there are those from Columbus who look down on the other two, but honestly, who else would be considered a consistent regular poster in the Columbus forum other than me? The guy from Minneapolis is hardly a fan. And I don't think I spend much time hating on Cleveland or Cincinnati at all. I respect both other 2-Cs, have always enjoyed my time there, want nothing but the best for them and think they only make Ohio better for being in it.
I still don't think Cleveland feels like Connecticut.
Some of Cleveland's eastern suburbs do though...as well as Shaker Square in Cleveland.
While I think this view is more prevalent with Cleveland posters, I'm not going to deny that there are certainly those from Cincinnati, and probably elsewhere, that think that way. You're absolutely right that there are some Cincinnati posters who look down on Columbus just as much as some from Cleveland do. I would say that there are those from Columbus who look down on the other two, but honestly, who else would be considered a consistent regular poster in the Columbus forum other than me? The guy from Minneapolis is hardly a fan. And I don't think I spend much time hating on Cleveland or Cincinnati at all. I respect both other 2-Cs, have always enjoyed my time there, want nothing but the best for them and think they only make Ohio better for being in it.
I still don't think Cleveland feels like Connecticut.
throw in Little Italy in Cleveland; especially with the Red Line train crossing overhead at the bottom of Mayfield Road...maybe not Connecticut but definitely eastern vibe there.
Some of Cleveland's eastern suburbs do though...as well as Shaker Square in Cleveland.
Connecticut totally sucks. Cleveland has more in common with Boston IN SOME AREAS (caps so hopefully people don't accuse me of saying Cleveland is basically Boston. It's not.) I've said this before too, but still waiting for deniers to actually look this up or take a trip (in most cases, to both these cities for the first time):
Cleveland on left - Boston on right
Shaker Square - Coolidge corner / Washington square
Public square - Copley square
University circle - fenway/avenue of the arts
Lakewood - somerville
Little Italy - north end
Chagrin falls could be any New England town
That's about where it ends. I don't see how anyone who has actually experienced both cities cannot see the similarities. The Bostonian areas tend to be a little higher class, given that it's a much much much wealthier city. But wait maybe 10 years in cle and we'll see. Of course there are many unique things about each. History and old stuff is a big one. Triple Decker's everywhere in Boston , nowhere in Cleveland. Geography is different. Boston has no answer to Ohio city. Cleveland has no answer to back bay, Harvard square, southie. Etc.
But anyway, you simply don't see equivalent neighborhoods that could be compared to New England in Columbus or anywhere in Ohio.
DISCLAIMER : I am not saying being New England like is superior, more cultured, or better in anyway. I am making objective observations.
Is this PC enough?
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