Forge Ahead Columbus releases 90 page report on the future of transit in Columbus (Cleveland: apartments, mover)

[ayoskillz]

Originally Posted by bjimmy24

With 1 million, density in Columbus would be 4608/sq mile.

Compare that to Boston's current 13340/sq mile. Or even Cleveland's 5107/sq mile.

It just doesn't really make sense for Columbus.

I'm not against mass transit. I'm against awful mass transit that's inefficient and that nobody wants.

Allow companies like this to exist just makes way more sense for Columbus and other midwestern cities, including Cleveland and Cincinnati: Bridj

Beats forcing everyone to pay taxes to fund a streetcar that will inevitably be way more expensive than first estimated and that people will slowly stop using, if they use it at all.

Exactly. It would be a big mess. Again look at the busses. How many people ride the bus and the bus has many more stop than the train will have. Now compared that to say Washington dc or Baltimore just for example busses are pack. Lets take it even futher.. a town in called new haven ct. Population is 130000. They have mass transit and it is always pack. Busses are pack and they run almost all night. Metro north going into nyc is pack. Its more about the lifestyle and culture. Columbus doesnt have a big culture on mass transit. And people are not just gonna drop their cars and get on a train because its not what they are use to

[jbcmh81]

Originally Posted by ayoskillz

Exactly. It would be a big mess. Again look at the busses. How many people ride the bus and the bus has many more stop than the train will have. Now compared that to say Washington dc or Baltimore just for example busses are pack. Lets take it even futher.. a town in called new haven ct. Population is 130000. They have mass transit and it is always pack. Busses are pack and they run almost all night. Metro north going into nyc is pack. Its more about the lifestyle and culture. Columbus doesnt have a big culture on mass transit. And people are not just gonna drop their cars and get on a train because its not what they are use to

COTA gets about 19 million riders a year, and that has been gradually rising over time, but to say that there is no transit culture is easy when you have literally no other transit besides the common bus. It is literally impossible to create that culture without anything else. Still, even what is available has done relatively well. The recently implemented C-Bus circulator is heavily used.

[jbcmh81]

Originally Posted by bjimmy24

With 1 million, density in Columbus would be 4608/sq mile.

Compare that to Boston's current 13340/sq mile. Or even Cleveland's 5107/sq mile.

It just doesn't really make sense for Columbus.

I'm not against mass transit. I'm against awful mass transit that's inefficient and that nobody wants.

Allow companies like this to exist just makes way more sense for Columbus and other midwestern cities, including Cleveland and Cincinnati: Bridj

Beats forcing everyone to pay taxes to fund a streetcar that will inevitably be way more expensive than first estimated and that people will slowly stop using, if they use it at all.

Columbus, will reach 1 million perhaps as soon as 2024-2025 if growth rates accelerate much more from where they are now, and as late as 2028-2029 if they stay about where they are now. That is not very long, and to build a rail system, even if it began construction tomorrow, would take several years from planning to full implementation. Beyond that time, Columbus will continue to grow. The point is that what the conditions are right now or a few years from now aren't really as important as the long term. Sticking with the bus alone isn't going to cut it, nor is what amounts to minivan share.

[logongst]

12 drinks in..

Outside cost, Rail seems too easy to set up in the city. No secret COTA busses are lacking in efficiency. Set up Rail along 315,71, 70,670. Rail connecting major city streets(Broad, Livingston,Cleveland, High) to the job centers in Downtown, OSU, Airport, Easton, Polaris, Dublin, Rickenbacker ect. Columbus is a metro of 2 million not 20,000.

[ayoskillz]

Originally Posted by jbcmh81

COTA gets about 19 million riders a year, and that has been gradually rising over time, but to say that there is no transit culture is easy when you have literally no other transit besides the common bus. It is literally impossible to create that culture without anything else. Still, even what is available has done relatively well. The recently implemented C-Bus circulator is heavily used.

Bus service.. Denver does 63mill. Dallas does about 39mil. Central Florida which is orlando those 28mill. Milwuakee wi does 44mill. So 19mil for a city the size of Columbus isn't nothing to brag about

Light rails Cleveland is just over 2mil. Charlotte which lighht rail is very new there and has over 5mil. Dallas has about 28mil...
Public Transit Agency Ridership Statistics

You can put your numbers together yourself

[jbcmh81]

Originally Posted by ayoskillz

Bus service.. Denver does 63mill. Dallas does about 39mil. Central Florida which is orlando those 28mill. Milwuakee wi does 44mill. So 19mil for a city the size of Columbus isn't nothing to brag about

Light rails Cleveland is just over 2mil. Charlotte which lighht rail is very new there and has over 5mil. Dallas has about 28mil...
Public Transit Agency Ridership Statistics

You can put your numbers together yourself

All of those cities have other forms of transit and therefore seem to have higher ridership across all forms. Consider that Indianapolis, Columbus' closest match, had ridership in 2015 of just 9.67 million. Transit Planning - IndyGo Indy also does not have any other forms but a bus. This is what I am talking about concerning transit culture. You can't really create one in Columbus at this time. I would give more examples, but Columbus and Indy are practically the only 2 major cities in America without any other form but the standard bus. However, in 2015, Cincinnati did only about 16 million. It has rail, but through Amtrak. We'll have to see if the streetcar changes anything there when it opens, but it is also an example where bus ridership has not stopped rail.
Ironically, both Orlando and Charlotte (and now Cincinnati) have lower to much lower population densities, so if they can make new rail successful, it can certainly work in Columbus.

[motorman]

Originally Posted by jbcmh81

...However, in 2015, Cincinnati did only about 16 million. It has rail, but through Amtrak. We'll have to see if the streetcar changes anything there when it opens, but it is also an example where bus ridership has not stopped rail...

This 16 million figure only reflects Cincinnati's Ohio ridership (SORTA). An accurate ridership figure must include metro Cincinnati's 3.8 million NKY ridership (TANK). Both systems intertwine within the CBD, share the same downtown office, and utilize the same metro cards and bus fares.

[ayoskillz]

Originally Posted by jbcmh81

All of those cities have other forms of transit and therefore seem to have higher ridership across all forms. Consider that Indianapolis, Columbus' closest match, had ridership in 2015 of just 9.67 million. Transit Planning - IndyGo Indy also does not have any other forms but a bus. This is what I am talking about concerning transit culture. You can't really create one in Columbus at this time. I would give more examples, but Columbus and Indy are practically the only 2 major cities in America without any other form but the standard bus. However, in 2015, Cincinnati did only about 16 million. It has rail, but through Amtrak. We'll have to see if the streetcar changes anything there when it opens, but it is also an example where bus ridership has not stopped rail.
Ironically, both Orlando and Charlotte (and now Cincinnati) have lower to much lower population densities, so if they can make new rail successful, it can certainly work in Columbus.

Detroit has no light rail, orlando, san Antonio, tampa florida, kansas city, Raleigh-Durham are all cities with no light rail. Busses only. I dont count amtrak cause it doesnt count

[WRnative]

Originally Posted by ayoskillz

Light rails Cleveland is just over 2mil.

Cleveland has both light and heavy rail systems.

Light rail ridership is over 2.6 million annually. Heavy rail ridership is over 6.4 million annually. Total rail ridership is about 9 million annually.

2015 Annual Report | Greater Cleveland Regional Transit Authority

[ayoskillz]

Originally Posted by WRnative

Cleveland has both light and heavy rail systems.

Light rail ridership is over 2.6 million annually. Heavy rail ridership is over 6.4 million annually. Total rail ridership is about 9 million annually.

2015 Annual Report | Greater Cleveland Regional Transit Authority

Not including heavy rail. That has nothing to do with a city's public transportation. More of a state thing. We talking bus or light rail... plenty of small towns have amtrak. That doesnt mean they will get on a city bus just because they got on a amtrak tk go somewhere.