Residents, would you reccomend Columbus over Cincinnati or Cleveland (Hamilton: home, neighborhood)

[jbcmh81]

Originally Posted by WRnative

Like you, I can only speculate, putting on my economics cap. As Columbus likely will discover in the near future (physical retail industry decline), when there is a massive dislocation in the dominant sector of an economy, it's difficult to shift skills and resources immediately to a new and growing segment.

The decline of American manufacturing hit Cleveland and other "rust belt" cities hard. Pittsburgh managed to pivot much more quickly than most impacted cities, and now is more prosperous than any of Ohio's major MSAs, from my review of statistics, if my memory serves me correctly.

Cleveland's out-migration, perhaps as in Columbus, was fueled by retirees migrating to Florida and other southern states.

With Cleveland's GDP now growing faster than Columbus and Cincinnati, and at a 2.9 percent rate compared with a national MSA average of 2.1, or almost 40 percent faster than average, this is an encouraging variable if it's sustained. There should be a corresponding relative growth in the population, especially given Greater Cleveland's older demographics; otherwise Greater Cleveland productivity will grow much faster than average and if there is an accompanying influx of younger employees, Greater Cleveland's demographics should become more youthful.

https://www.cleveland.com/business/i...rt_river_index

The Bureau of Economic Analysis metro GDP report is linked at the bottom of the above article.

So the next few decades could be very interesting and positive for Cleveland, again if the GDP growth is sustainable.

Perhaps, considering the first link in post 113, and comments in the above article, Cleveland's GDP growth is now powered by a smaller number of highly paid and productive jobs (e.g., corporate headquarters employment) which doesn't quickly increase general employment and incomes.

The unemployment rate chart in this link (from post 113) is very fascinating. I don't know why the unemployment rate in Cleveland and Ohio spiked so much from 2015 to 2017, before beginning to rapidly revert to the mean in mid-2017. This likely explains the high 2017 GDP growth rate in the Cleveland MSA to some degree.

https://www.clevelandfed.org/newsroo...cleveland.aspx

Columbus really isn’t dominated by any single industry, though, retail or otherwise. Even government is only the 3rd largest industry in the metro. It has significant jobs in health, finance, distribution, retail, utilities, etc. It’s unlikely that it will face any similar fate as Rust Belt cities. Modern economies just aren’t set up the same way now.

You didn’t really answer my question, but rather just used it as another chance to claim Cleveland’s superiority. I’m asking why, right now, if you believe that everything there is great and superior to at least regional cities, it isn’t seeing any response in people choosing to live there? There just seems to be a disconnect between what you’re saying and what people seem to think or want. I think Cleveland needs to look at how Cincinnati turned things around- one of the only cities considered Rust Belt- to do so.

[Kamms]

Originally Posted by on3

If I was to relocate back out of Cincinnati, it would probably be a toss up between Cbus and CLE. As long as I'm still in Ohio, that's all that matters. In both locations, including Cincinnati, I've done just about everything to the point where people ask me why it doesn't feel more worn out than a catcher's mitt from the very first world series. It just doesn't. I'm never bored here in Ohio. It's almost unfair to have this cost of living while constantly being entertained.

Where else have you lived?

Why the love for OH?

[HueysBack]

Originally Posted by on3

He's even gone so far as to make exaggerations along the lines that people would rather go to the West Side market for it's culture and history, then to go to Jungle Jim's for it's extensive selection of actual food.

Friend, I think you've brought up some legitimate points so far and everyone could probably check their defensive/reactionary tone a bit, including me. However, you're saying some pretty wild stuff. Jungle Jim's does look very cool (epic even) and I can't wait to check it and Greater Cincy out - soon.

But have you ever been to the West Side Market? It's completely different than something like Jungle Jim's (which appears to be a grocery store, albeit an amazing one). The WSM is a legit marketplace, though. Inside of a beautiful building. Surrounded by a pretty cool neighborhood. The diverse range of food. The diverse range of peoples and cultures. It is more of an experience than simply a grocery store. And you CAN get a large range of "actual food". Good food.

Originally Posted by tlb919

You have every right to be proud of Cleveland's assets but you also need to be realistic about it's overall offerings and how it stacks up to it's peers. Even with all of Clevelands accolades, people are choosing Columbus, Cincinnati, Indy, Charlotte, Nashville, Denver, and Austin for a reason.

This is a good point to make. I think CLE has gotten so much bad (and unfair) press over the years that some residents are overly defensive and reactionary. Some of that bad press is fair, however, and speaks to serious - and obvious - issues this area faces. It's much larger (and deeper) than just "job loss", although that seems to have certainly been a devastating blow. It's a story shared with the other Rust Belt cities. Political corruption. Race relations. Poor economic planning. Exploitative/unsustainable business practices. Horrible policy on a national level. Other socio-economic-cultural-environmental issues.

Originally Posted by jbcmh81

I think Cleveland needs to look at how Cincinnati turned things around- one of the only cities considered Rust Belt- to do so.

Cleveland should study the transitional evolution of many other cities. Pittsburgh, Milwaukee, Philadelphia... certainly Chicago. Boston.

I think that is actually happening right now.

[Kamms]

Originally Posted by tlb919

I couldn't let this statement pass without explaining how absurd it is. Come on, you cannot honestly have written this with a straight face. You are having an aneurism over "Columbus residents AGGRANDIZING (which must be your word of the month) the city while taking digs at Cleveland" and then write this.... Dude... This statement is the definition of aggrandizing. Hahaha.

I actually know quite a bit about urban transit systems and can tell you with absolute fact I have never been 'astonished' with Cleveland's rapid. It's extensive, yes, however it's also a shell of a system. The waterfront line is effectively a ghost aside from game days, the system runs single car operations on most of the lines, and ridership is fell (9.5%) last year systemwide to a historic low. For someone who claims to only care about facts, it's pretty ingenuine to post about the marvels of the rapid while not acknowledging that it's far from anything a system like it should be and could be. If you want to boast about a Cleveland transit system it should be the Health Line.

I have no intention to 'aggrandize' Columbus or Cincy over Cleveland, but acting like Cleveland is some vastly superior cultural magnet city with world class transit and amenities and is doing you more harm than good. Columbus and Cincinnati absolutely have their issues, but you know what, they can admit them and by proxy are able to discuss ideas to fix/improve them.

I will repeat one more for those in the back, the 3Cs are for the first time in history on a pretty damn equal playing field. What happens next? Not sure, but peacocking on a forum about how much more you know about Columbus (or whatever forum you target that day) than someone who has lived there isn't going to push Cleveland ahead in anyones mind.

Yeah, right, try getting Cincy folks to admit their Streetcar isn't a national joke. Yes, one thing that leaps to mind is Cincinnati being able to discuss idead and fix/improve the Streetcar. Try getting Cincinnati to admit that its attempt to re-image itself as a progressive magnet for millennials by building a streetcar loop worked out.

[on3]

Originally Posted by Kamms

Where else have you lived?

Why the love for OH?

I've lived in Orange County, CA... Columbus, Cleveland, Cincinnati, and Birmingham, AL.

Ohio is just the optimal cost of living/excitement. Certainly not the cheapest, certainly not the most exciting, but the compromise of the extremes is perfect.

[Kamms]

Originally Posted by on3

I've lived in Orange County, CA... Columbus, Cleveland, Cincinnati, and Birmingham, AL.

Ohio is just the optimal cost of living/excitement. Certainly not the cheapest, certainly not the most exciting, but the compromise of the extremes is perfect.

Ok, so originally from...?

[Natural510]

Is this match.com?

[Kamms]

Originally Posted by Natural510

Is this match.com?

Oh no, not at all. on3 knows so much about CLE area, perhaps he or she is originally from NEO. If not, it's interesting to hear what a non-native Buckeye thinks about all things Ohio.

[Buckeye614]

Cleveland hasn't gained population since 1950 and had the number five highest murder rate in 2017. So yes it has a (mostly losing) NFL team, apparently a theater (newsflash people my age in their mid-twenties care about jobs and night life, not theater), and a lake where they dump raw sewage into.

The west side market is one of the crown jewels of Cleveland. A perfect metaphor, a once glorious institution crumbling and driving people away.

https://www.wkyc.com/article/news/in...y/95-594576470

[WRnative]

Originally Posted by Buckeye614

Cleveland hasn't gained population since 1950 and had the number five highest murder rate in 2017. So yes it has a (mostly losing) NFL team, apparently a theater (newsflash people my age in their mid-twenties care about jobs and night life, not theater), and a lake where they dump raw sewage into.

The west side market is one of the crown jewels of Cleveland. A perfect metaphor, a once glorious institution crumbling and driving people away.

https://www.wkyc.com/article/news/in...y/95-594576470

Cleveland and Cuyahoga County remain much more densely populated than Columbus and Franklin County and Cincinnati and Hamilton County.

Unlike Columbus, Cleveland has NFL and MLB teams, the latter of which has reached the play-offs for three consecutive years. Only Cleveland has an NBA team in Ohio, and it has been one of the best NBA teams for four years winning one title. Columbus has Ohio's only NHL team, but the NHL lags far behind the NBA in popularity.

It's a ridiculous statement that Millennials don't like theater. In Cleveland, it's very popular among Millennials as is obvious from viewing audiences. I even know one 20-something Columbus native who subscribes to the Playhouse Square Broadway Series. Do you think "Hamilton" appealed mostly to older Americans?

Theater in Cleveland compared with Columbus is of a higher quality and is more affordable given its much larger theater subscription base and the absence of a middle man producer as Cleveland's PlayhouseSquare books national tours directly. This raises the appeal of theater among Millennials. It's also likely that Cleveland has developed its youth theater base aggressively over the years compared to most cities.

Programs for Teens | Playhouse Square

Education | Playhouse Square

The murder rate in Cleveland is a problem, but it's largely confined to a few neighborhoods. As noted in this thread, Cleveland has a much larger downtown population than either Columbus or Cincinnati.

Raw sewage is not dumped into Lake Erie except during massive storms. The storm water capture rate in Greater Cleveland is at 80 percent on its way to 98 percent. Faulty septic systems in Greater Columbus likely are a greater source of pollution. What is the storm water capture rate in Columbus???

https://www.neorsd.org/green-our-pro...lake-agreemen/