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Old 09-14-2018, 09:37 AM
 
Location: Ohio via WV
632 posts, read 832,531 times
Reputation: 471

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Quote:
Originally Posted by WRnative View Post
Source?

Cities vs. metros? The per capita personal income numbers linked in this thread are for metros. There are significant numbers of colleges and junior colleges in the Cleveland metro outside of Cleveland. My perception is that junior colleges are larger in the Cleveland metro -- three systems -- because, unlike in Columbus, they are subsidized by local property levies; Cleveland metro junior colleges also facilitate 4-year degrees.

Holden University Center | Home - myLakeland

Remember that the city of Columbus is much larger than the city of Cleveland if you're calculating the numbers for higher learning institutions located in both cities.
This is such a dumb argument. But let's settle this. I'm not included for profits or community colleges because their numbers are unreliable and that wasn't the point of the original argument. A lot of the enrollment of those also consists of established adults.

Franklin County (1,291,981):

Ohio State University: 59,837
Capital University: 3,367
Otterbein University: 2,791
Ohio Dominican University: 1,700
Columbus CAD: 1,082

Total: 68,777 students

Cuyahoga County (1,248,514):

Baldwin Wallace University: 4,177
Case Western Reserve University: 11,824
Cleveland Institute of Art: 615
Cleveland Institute of Music: 427
Cleveland State University: 17,260
John Carroll University: 3,673
Notre Dame College: 2,100
Stautzenberger College: 814
Ursuline College: 1,175

Total: 42,065 students

Difference: 26,712

Comparison of overall percent of population:
Columbus: 5.32%
Cleveland: 3.37%

Columbus has approximately 26,712 more students than Cleveland.

Last edited by 304eer; 09-14-2018 at 09:51 AM..
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Old 09-14-2018, 10:13 AM
 
11,610 posts, read 10,438,435 times
Reputation: 7217
Quote:
Originally Posted by 304eer View Post
This is such a dumb argument. But let's settle this. I'm not included for profits or community colleges because their numbers are unreliable and that wasn't the point of the original argument. A lot of the enrollment of those also consists of established adults.

Franklin County (1,291,981):

Ohio State University: 59,837
Capital University: 3,367
Otterbein University: 2,791
Ohio Dominican University: 1,700
Columbus CAD: 1,082

Total: 68,777 students

Cuyahoga County (1,248,514):

Baldwin Wallace University: 4,177
Case Western Reserve University: 11,824
Cleveland Institute of Art: 615
Cleveland Institute of Music: 427
Cleveland State University: 17,260
John Carroll University: 3,673
Notre Dame College: 2,100
Stautzenberger College: 814
Ursuline College: 1,175

Total: 42,065 students

Difference: 26,712

Comparison of overall percent of population:
Columbus: 5.32%
Cleveland: 3.37%

Columbus has approximately 26,712 more students than Cleveland.
I'm not certain what the argument is, but the only thing "dumb" IMO are your assumptions and calculations.

First, community college enrollments are not unreliable. Due to subsidies and the great value-added equation offered by Greater Cleveland's junior colleges (see comparable "in-district" tuitions in link below) -- Cuyahoga, Lakeland, Lorain County -- often are a more preferred option compared to the metro's state universities, perhaps unlike in Columbus. Many students, likely also in Columbus, attend community colleges before switching to four-year programs, so it makes absolutely no sense to exclude their enrollments from your calculations.

https://www.usnews.com/education/com...-colleges/ohio

Second, the Cleveland metro includes five counties with substantial populations and additional private colleges (Lake Erie and Oberlin, just off the top of my head). Kent State's Geauga campus has about 2,500 students.

https://www.kent.edu/campus-locations

Third, your percent of populations say Columbus and Cleveland, which likely isn't accurate, especially for Cleveland given its small size in relation to Cuyahoga County compared to size of Columbus in relation to Franklin County.

What is Columbus CAD?

BTW, one of the most selective university programs in Cleveland is the Cleveland Clinic Lerner College of Medicine, even though its enrollment is just about 120.

The Columbus metro would include additional colleges as well, such as Ohio Wesleyan in Delaware County. I would suspect that the Columbus metro does have a higher percentage of college and university students than the Cleveland metro given the presence of Ohio State in Columbus. However, I also suspect that the presence of Ohio State relatively raises the per capita personal income of the Columbus metro compared to the Cleveland metro rather than lowers it, given its large number of faculty, research associates, medical professionals, etc.; this assumes that Ohio State doesn't employ large numbers of adjunct professors, more common at community colleges.

Last edited by WRnative; 09-14-2018 at 10:52 AM..
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Old 09-14-2018, 11:10 AM
 
11,610 posts, read 10,438,435 times
Reputation: 7217
Quote:
Originally Posted by 304eer View Post
Smallest feel of the three although it has the highest metro population. Has many large suburbs. Dirtier, industrial city. The lake and Playhouse Square (arts and theatre district) are great assets that you can't get in the other cities.
Baloney.

Smallest feel?

Cleveland has the tallest buildings in Ohio, framed by its great Public Square and Mall; cultural amenities that are significantly superior to those in Cincinnati, and much superior to those in Columbus; three major pro sports venues located downtown; the Cleveland metro's many suburbs significantly exceed those in the Columbus metro; Greater Cleveland's many marinas support a significant boating culture unlike anything in Cincinnati, let alone Columbus; Cleveland's mass transit system, with rail and bus rapid lines (including the 24/7 Healthline bus rapid that connects downtown and University Circle), is far superior to those in Columbus and Cincinnati; Cleveland has a larger downtown population than Cincinnati, and especially Columbus; Greater Cleveland's FIVE county (metro) park systems collectively greatly exceed those in Columbus in quality and acreage, not even including Cuyahoga Valley National Park and the exceptional Holden Arboretum; and Cleveland's medical centers with the world-renown Cleveland Clinic are superior to those in Cincinnati and Columbus.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...ldings_in_Ohio

https://www.clevelandmetroparks.com/...best-in-nation

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HealthLine

Dirtier, industrial city?

Cleveland is considered to have one of the cleanest downtowns in the U.S. (do either Columbus or Cincinnati regularly sweep and power wash their downtown streets?)

Clean & Safe Ambassadors | Downtown Cleveland Alliance

Unfortunately, much of Greater Cleveland's industrial base is gone; so are the coal-fired power plants, so pollution is much less than in the past.

Also, University Circle is one of the great cultural centers and prettiest neighborhoods in the U.S.

https://www.forbes.com/pictures/efel.../#37639e0e3115

https://www.nytimes.com/2013/07/21/t...cleveland.html

Candidly, given my interests in high culture, pro sports, and nature, I would be relatively bored if I lived in Columbus, and I've visited it extensively over many years.

Last edited by WRnative; 09-14-2018 at 11:30 AM..
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Old 09-14-2018, 12:37 PM
 
Location: Ohio via WV
632 posts, read 832,531 times
Reputation: 471
That's your opinion. I gave mine. Congrats.

Someone from Columbus likes Columbus more and someone from Cleveland likes Cleveland more. I'm shocked!
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Old 09-14-2018, 01:24 PM
 
11,610 posts, read 10,438,435 times
Reputation: 7217
Here's one reason that metro Cleveland's per capita personal income hangs in there, compared to Columbus and Cincinnati, despite the decline of its manufacturing base.

<<Northeast Ohio is second among the nation’s largest metro areas in the percentage of its workforce employed in headquarters jobs....

The Team NEO report shows 187,000 people in Northeast Ohio working at business headquarters or for related professional services. The number has increased by 25,000 people in the past decade and a half.
>>

Jobs at Company Headquarters in Northeast Ohio Are Increasing | WKSU

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1N-Z..._JjDxpdvq/view

Of course, northeast Ohio encompasses more than the Cleveland metro.
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Old 09-14-2018, 01:25 PM
 
11,610 posts, read 10,438,435 times
Reputation: 7217
Quote:
Originally Posted by 304eer View Post
That's your opinion. I gave mine. Congrats.

Someone from Columbus likes Columbus more and someone from Cleveland likes Cleveland more. I'm shocked!
Just pointed out some OBJECTIVE differences that contradicted your opinion and statements about Cleveland.
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Old 09-15-2018, 07:46 AM
 
11,610 posts, read 10,438,435 times
Reputation: 7217
As for Cleveland "feeling smaller" than Columbus or Cincinnati, Cleveland also has an international harbor with scheduled ocean freighter service to Europe and a downtown airport with even limited scheduled service.

Cleveland Hopkins International Airport's terminal has a Red Line rail rapid station a short walk from baggage pick-up that connects to stations both in downtown's Tower City and at the University Circle cultural, educational (Case Western) and medical centers, as well as Little Italy.

Neither Columbus nor Cincinnati has anything downtown comparable to Cleveland's Tower City. It has a rail transit hub, shopping mall, hotels, office buildings, a downtown casino, and pedestrian tunnels/walkways connecting surrounding office buildings and Quicken Loans Arena/Progressive Field. Tower City's Terminal Tower is an historic skyscraper with a great observation deck open on weekends.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tower_City_Center

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terminal_Tower

Last edited by WRnative; 09-15-2018 at 08:17 AM..
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Old 09-15-2018, 09:09 AM
 
730 posts, read 775,581 times
Reputation: 864
Quote:
Originally Posted by 304eer View Post
This is such a dumb argument. But let's settle this. I'm not included for profits or community colleges because their numbers are unreliable and that wasn't the point of the original argument. A lot of the enrollment of those also consists of established adults.

Franklin County (1,291,981):

Ohio State University: 59,837
Capital University: 3,367
Otterbein University: 2,791
Ohio Dominican University: 1,700
Columbus CAD: 1,082

Total: 68,777 students

Cuyahoga County (1,248,514):

Baldwin Wallace University: 4,177
Case Western Reserve University: 11,824
Cleveland Institute of Art: 615
Cleveland Institute of Music: 427
Cleveland State University: 17,260
John Carroll University: 3,673
Notre Dame College: 2,100
Stautzenberger College: 814
Ursuline College: 1,175

Total: 42,065 students

Difference: 26,712

Comparison of overall percent of population:
Columbus: 5.32%
Cleveland: 3.37%

Columbus has approximately 26,712 more students than Cleveland.
You left out Columbus' second biggest college enrollment, Columbus State Community College. Add another 24.5K to your Columbus number. That make 7% of Columbus Metro residents college students.

Biggest Colleges/Universities in Columbus:
Ohio State University-Main Campus (Full-time enrollment: 58,395; Location: 190 N. Oval Mall; Public; Website: www.osu.edu; Offers Doctor's degree)
Columbus State Community College (FT enrollment: 24,488; Location: 550 E Spring St; Public; Website: www.cscc.edu/)
DeVry University-Ohio (FT enrollment: 3,896; Location: 1350 Alum Creek Dr.; Private, for-profit; Website: www.devry.edu; Offers Master's degree)
Franklin University (FT enrollment: 3,736; Location: 201 S Grant Ave; Private, not-for-profit; Website: www.franklin.edu; Offers Master's degree)
Capital University (FT enrollment: 3,029; Location: 1 College and Main; Private, not-for-profit; Website: www.capital.edu; Offers Doctor's degree)
Ohio Dominican University (FT enrollment: 2,045; Location: 1216 Sunbury Road; Private, not-for-profit; Website: www.ohiodominican.edu; Offers Master's degree)
Columbus College of Art and Design (FT enrollment: 1,276; Location: 60 Cleveland Ave.; Private, not-for-profit; Website: WWW.CCAD.EDU; Offers Master's degree)
Mount Carmel College of Nursing (FT enrollment: 1,196; Location: 127 So. Davis Ave; Private, not-for-profit; Website: www.mccn.edu; Offers Master's degree)
Bradford School (FT enrollment: 746; Location: 2469 Stelzer Road; Private, for-profit; Website: www.bradfordschoolcolumbus.edu)
Chamberlain College of Nursing-Ohio (FT enrollment: 634; Location: 1350 Alum Creek Dr.; Private, for-profit; Website: www.chamberlain.edu)

Read more: //www.city-data.com/city/Columb...#ixzz5RBQXqcch

Last edited by Clever nickname here; 09-15-2018 at 09:18 AM..
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Old 09-16-2018, 06:43 PM
 
Location: Ohio via WV
632 posts, read 832,531 times
Reputation: 471
Quote:
Originally Posted by WRnative View Post
Just pointed out some OBJECTIVE differences that contradicted your opinion and statements about Cleveland.
Except your "facts" were completely wrong and not worth arguing. But here we are.

For instance:

Cleveland metropark system which you claimed was higher quality and larger. Cleveland metroparks encompass 23,000 acres. Columbus metroparks is 27,700 acres

You claimed Cleveland had a larger downtown population. A quick google shows that Cleveland's downtown population is 15,000. Columbus' downtown population is 49,000.

Yes, Columbus regularly cleans it's streets. That's really an argument of yours? LOL

And yes, I will stand behind my comment on Cleveland as a dirty city. The abandoned industrial factories and currently used factories gives it a very dirty, ugly feel. And many people seem to agree:
https://www.forbes.com/pictures/mef4.../#7e2b48df1a34
https://www.apartmenttherapy.com/dir...dy-2018-256221
https://www.bobvila.com/slideshow/th...leveland-dirty

Not too mention the air quality in Cleveland is extremely poor. Cleveland is the only Ohio city listed by the EPA is a PM 2.5 non-attainment area as well as ozone. As well as listed maintenance areas for CO and lead

Also, I will stand behind my "Cleveland has the smallest feel" comment. Cleveland has 6 of the tallest 20 buildings in Ohio. Columbus has 10 of 20. Cincinnati has 4.

And back to the per capita income...city limits isn't representative of the city as a whole. The metro area is the best representation of the wealth in the area as most wealthy people move to suburbs. And therefore, Columbus again, is by far the wealthiest city

Last edited by 304eer; 09-16-2018 at 06:58 PM..
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Old 09-16-2018, 07:01 PM
 
Location: Ohio via WV
632 posts, read 832,531 times
Reputation: 471
Quote:
Originally Posted by Clever nickname here View Post
You left out Columbus' second biggest college enrollment, Columbus State Community College. Add another 24.5K to your Columbus number. That make 7% of Columbus Metro residents college students.

Read more: //www.city-data.com/city/Columb...#ixzz5RBQXqcch
If you read my post, I did that on purpose. Community Colleges and for-profit college have extremely poor graduation rates and their enrollment numbers aren't reliable. Cleveland has very high community college enrollment too. The people who go to these are also more likely to be part-time students while working a job so they're not really representative of the demographics that we were looking for
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