Is Columbus the best city in the Midwest? (Cleveland, Cincinnati: closing, move to)

[216facts]

Originally Posted by Craziaskowboi

This is childish.

Agree. But, this is city-data.

[jbcmh81]

Originally Posted by TheProf

I disagree. Culture has brought, and will continue to bring, people to cities with strong cultural amenities, including Cleveland. Will culture bring in the masses? Probably not, but to write culture off as a non-factor in saying it "... just won't bring in people" is flat out wrong. And I could care less about any polls or lists, including polls and lists from the Census which, itself, has proven over time to often be inaccurate.

It's not probably or maybe, it definitely doesn't. The data just doesn't support it. If there are people moving for culture, they're just a fraction of the 2.3% that are classified as "other". We're talking a handful of people in any given city.

The Census data has historically been very good. The survey in question had a greater than 90% confidence level based on the margins of error. I would certainly trust it over the perceptions and beliefs of people posting on an internet forum.

[TheProf]

Originally Posted by jbcmh81

It's not probably or maybe, it definitely doesn't. The data just doesn't support it. If there are people moving for culture, they're just a fraction of the 2.3% that are classified as "other". We're talking a handful of people in any given city.

The Census data has historically been very good. The survey in question had a greater than 90% confidence level based on the margins of error. I would certainly trust it over the perceptions and beliefs of people posting on an internet forum.

It's not perception... I know for a fact, personally, more than one -- in fact many -- people who have relocated to greater Cleveland for its strong cultural institutions and activities.

[bjimmy24]

Census data assumes people actually know why they do things. Humans in reality are much more emotional than rational.

[TheProf]

London's Royal Albert Hall CEO is relocating to Cleveland to become Playhouse Square's CEO/president because ... (wait for it) ... Cleveland is a globally significant performing arts center (quote from the CEO/the article).

... I did say he's coming from London, didn't I? (the London; not London, Ohio ... or Dubuque, for that matter).

https://www.cleveland.com/news/2022/...velopment.html

[WRnative]

Originally Posted by TheProf

London's Royal Albert Hall CEO is relocating to Cleveland to become Playhouse Square's CEO/president because ... (wait for it) ... Cleveland is a globally significant performing arts center (quote from the CEO/the article).

... I did say he's coming from London, didn't I? (the London; not London, Ohio ... or Dubuque, for that matter).

https://www.cleveland.com/news/2022/...velopment.html

Wait for it!


Jbmch will argue he's relocating to Cleveland for the job, not the culture.


Yet, from the interview:


<<
“I’d never heard of Playhouse Square when all this started, and to be honest, I was skeptical about this job,’’ [new Playhouse Square CEO Craig] Hassall said Monday morning, speaking from London in an interview with cleveland.com and The Plain Dealer.


But he was impressed when he came for a visit earlier this year. “I’ve never seen such a concentration of quality venues in one place, in the world,’’ he said. “Seeing the venues, to me, that clinched it. I thought: ‘This is extraordinary.’ ">>


Just perhaps others interested in culture, but deterred by much more expensive metro centers, often threatened by climate change, might make the same determination especially when the much more renown Cleveland Orchestra and its equally exceptional performance venues and the Cleveland Museum of Art, even the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame and Museum, are thrown into the equation.


Hassall, an Australian with an impressive, perhaps unequaled, background of managing performing arts venues in the English-speaking world, as described in the article, recognizes the virtuous magnet of top-notch cultural assets even if its beyond the grasp of some posters in this thread.


<<Growth at Playhouse Square means not just having busier venues and bigger audiences, it could mean filling more hotel rooms and restaurants, and adding to downtown’s steadily rising population, now at 20,000 and expected to reach 30,000 by 2030. Hassall sees it as a virtuous economic cycle.





“The more active and the more animated the precinct, the better for the theaters,’’ he said.>>


https://www.cleveland.com/news/2022/...velopment.html


A New York Times real estate reporter recognized this same potential in 2014, even before the successful construction and launch amid the COVID epidemic of the 34-story Lumen luxury apartment complex across the street from the main Playhouse Square venues, and the ongoing construction of luxury high-rise residential buildings in University Circle, all connected by the 24/7 Healthline bus rapid.



https://www.nytimes.com/2014/04/02/r...-alluring.html

[TheProf]

Originally Posted by WRnative

Wait for it!
Jbmch will argue he's relocating to Cleveland for the job, not the culture.

I'm sure he probably will...

Although I'll take Mr. Hassall at his word that he'd never heard of Playhouse Square, itself (and he likely has company in the billions), something other than a mere job ad had to attract him to make such a radical move to another country across the Atlantic. We likely will never know. But we do know he's leaving one of the economic, cultural, and historic powerhouses of the world to come to a similar position ... in Cleveland, which as writer Steve Litt described as "... second tier, mid-continent 26 times smaller [than London]." I love Cleveland, but I'd be insane to think it's on London's level... Just proves again, though, it's hardly a slouch culture-wise as Hassell was blown away by what he discovered in PHS.

Job, yes, but all things being equal, this man was likely in demand around the world ... and he made a choice to come to C-Town.

[WRnative]

Originally Posted by TheProf

I'm sure he probably will...

Although I'll take Mr. Hassall at his word that he'd never heard of Playhouse Square, itself (and he likely has company in the billions), something other than a mere job ad had to attract him to make such a radical move to another country across the Atlantic. We likely will never know. But we do know he's leaving one of the economic, cultural, and historic powerhouses of the world to come to a similar position ... in Cleveland, which as writer Steve Litt described as "... second tier, mid-continent 26 times smaller [than London]." I love Cleveland, but I'd be insane to think it's on London's level... Just proves again, though, it's hardly a slouch culture-wise as Hassell was blown away by what he discovered in PHS.

Job, yes, but all things being equal, this man was likely in demand around the world ... and he made a choice to come to C-Town.

Just as with the Cleveland Orchestra, Hassall's salary is likely competitive, but the much lower cost of living and the quality of the job tips the balance in favor of Cleveland. Hassall likely can go from living in a nice townhouse in London to a mansion in Shaker Heights or elsewhere in Greater Cleveland.


Likely, jbmch and the other disparagers of Cleveland's world-class cultural assets in this thread, also likely know little or anything, about Franz Welser-Most.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Franz_Welser-M%C3%B6st


Just luring Hassall to Cleveland generates great, positive PR for Playhouse Square. Not quite on par with LeBron James, perhaps, but not insignificant in the performing arts world. It will be interesting if anybody outside of Cleveland reports on why Hassall is trading London for Cleveland.


"Broadway World" didn't blink an eye, but for decades it has reported extensively about Playhouse Square, and the Playhouse Square CEO sits on the board that determines and schedules Broadway national tours. Not mentioned by Litt, the Playhouse Square CEO job will introduce Hassall to the movers and shakers in the American performing arts scene, likely not an insignificant consideration in Hassall's acceptance of the position. Outgoing Playhouse Square CEO Gina Vernaci, current Road Vice Chair of the Broadway League, has spent well over a decade visiting Broadway and evaluating productions for national tour potential even before she became CEO of Playhouse Square. Not a bad gig.

https://www.broadwayworld.com/westen...-Down-20220810


https://www.bloomberg.com/profile/person/20795773


Given the quality of its facilities and its large Broadway tour subscription base, Cleveland often is chosen as the launch site or an early tour venue for new Broadway national tours. Not only are Broadway tour shows in Cleveland often earlier, tickets usually are much cheaper, especially for subscribers, than in other cities due to the much greater economy of scale and longer runs, and the fact that Playhouse Square books tours directly and doesn't use a middle man as in Columbus, and sometimes the productions in Cleveland have larger and better casts.



https://www.ideastream.org/news/play...roadway-season


E.g., "Hairspray" was booked in Cleveland in 2014, and may have been a better production as it was the original national tour and played larger markets.

https://columbusunderground.com/beet...23-season-ae1/


https://www.broadwayworld.com/clevel...0-713-20140521



Here's a discussion of using booking agents versus booking directly, but the article doesn't mention the cost of commissions paid to booking agents versus in-house booking costs. Playhouse Square now also books Broadway shows for the E.J. Thomas Hall in Akron, to my knowledge, the best modern art theater in Ohio. Yet notice how the short runs (a few days) limit production availability. Runs in Columbus typically are a week, versus a minimum of three weeks in Cleveland.



https://www.playhousesquare.org/news...n-akron-series




https://www.post-gazette.com/ae/thea...s/200705060136

[TheProf]

Originally Posted by WRnative

Just as with the Cleveland Orchestra, Hassall's salary is likely competitive, but the much lower cost of living and the quality of the job tips the balance in favor of Cleveland. Hassall likely can go from living in a nice townhouse in London to a mansion in Shaker Heights or elsewhere in Greater Cleveland.


Likely, jbmch and the other disparagers of Cleveland's world-class cultural assets in this thread, also likely know little or anything, about Franz Welser-Most.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Franz_Welser-M%C3%B6st


Just luring Hassall to Cleveland generates great, positive PR for Playhouse Square. Not quite on par with LeBron James, perhaps, but not insignificant in the performing arts world. It will be interesting if anybody outside of Cleveland reports on why Hassall is trading London for Cleveland.


"Broadway World" didn't blink an eye, but for decades it has reported extensively about Playhouse Square, and the Playhouse Square CEO sits on the board that determines and schedules Broadway national tours. Not mentioned by Litt, the Playhouse Square CEO job will introduce Hassall to the movers and shakers in the American performing arts scene, likely not an insignificant consideration in Hassall's acceptance of the position. Outgoing Playhouse Square CEO Gina Vernaci, current Road Vice Chair of the Broadway League, has spent well over a decade visiting Broadway and evaluating productions for national tour potential even before she became CEO of Playhouse Square. Not a bad gig.

https://www.broadwayworld.com/westen...-Down-20220810


https://www.bloomberg.com/profile/person/20795773


Given the quality of its facilities and its large Broadway tour subscription base, Cleveland often is chosen as the launch site or an early tour venue for new Broadway national tours.

This!

[tribecavsbrowns]

It is an ironclad law of City-Data that any discussion about how urban/important/unique/livable Columbus is will turn into a discussion about Cleveland's symphony orchestra and theater district. LOL