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This is just nutty to me. Columbus fails in comparison to smaller cities like Madison and Ann Arbor, absolutely and unequivocally I might add. It's no shame, especially Ann Arbor is awesome. it's also not a small college town like you suggest. The city limits contain 121k people. Madison is a state capital with a state university, much like Columbus.
by and large peer cities blow it out of the water too in every imaginable category. Not really sure what you're thjinking of preceisely here.
Columbus has far more career opportunities than both Madison and Ann Arbor combined. Not only do you have the massive Univ (as those cities do) but you also have many big companies located here, including the biggest Fortune 500 company in Ohio by revenue, Cardinal Health. Some other major companies who each employ thousands in Columbus - JP Morgan Chase, Nationwide, Honda, L Brands, Huntington, Amazon, AEP. Even larger, the public sector employer - the state of Ohio - employing over 20,000.
With Intel coming it will further fortify the economy. Say it with me Jimmy - Welcome to Silicon Heartland!
This is just nutty to me. Columbus fails in comparison to smaller cities like Madison and Ann Arbor, absolutely and unequivocally I might add. It's no shame, especially Ann Arbor is awesome. it's also not a small college town like you suggest. The city limits contain 121k people. Madison is a state capital with a state university, much like Columbus.
by and large peer cities blow it out of the water too in every imaginable category. Not really sure what you're thjinking of preceisely here.
LOL. You're comparing a city of 121,000 people to a metropolitan area of 2.3 million? And you're calling other people nutty?
But I can cherry pick if I want. I can compare Dublin, New Albany and Granville to whatever place you choose just to be able to say that they suck.
This is just nutty to me. Columbus fails in comparison to smaller cities like Madison and Ann Arbor, absolutely and unequivocally I might add. It's no shame, especially Ann Arbor is awesome. it's also not a small college town like you suggest. The city limits contain 121k people. Madison is a state capital with a state university, much like Columbus.
by and large peer cities blow it out of the water too in every imaginable category. Not really sure what you're thjinking of preceisely here.
What's nutty is that you think people actually move somewhere for an orchestra. No doubt Cleveland blows Cbus out of the water with it's cultural amenities but who is moving to these peer cities for their great cultural institutions?? Clearly no one is to Cleveland or else we would have seen some sort of metro growth by now. Again Cbus is average, nothing special but it offers a great mix job opportunities that in the end, make it more attractive to me and it seems others as well.
I think a lot of you guys are hitting the nail on the head. People need and move to various locations for....drum rolll please.....JOBS! Cities like Detroit, Toledo, Cleveland, Dayton, etc have lost mass people because they lost mass jobs. Columbus migration is in part from within the state of Ohio. What does Columbus have that hard hit post-manufacturing cities do not? JOBS. Columbus biggest strength is it's economy and a strong economy will bring people. So, yes, the amenities of a location can make a difference when a person is finacially secure enough to be able to "choose" where they want to live based on amenities and such but, as many here have noted, who moves to a city based on cultural factors. Yes, they can be contributing factors, but in and of themselves not so much. You know what motivates a lot of people to move? Survival and to survive people need work.
What's nutty is that you think people actually move somewhere for an orchestra. No doubt Cleveland blows Cbus out of the water with it's cultural amenities but who is moving to these peer cities for their great cultural institutions?? Clearly no one is to Cleveland or else we would have seen some sort of metro growth by now. Again Cbus is average, nothing special but it offers a great mix job opportunities that in the end, make it more attractive to me and it seems others as well.
Greater Cleveland attributes dwarf those of Columbus, especially regarding cultural amenities, pro sports, parks and outdoors recreational amenities (Lake Erie), and quality of medical institutions.
The Cleveland Orchestra isn't just an orchestra, but arguably the best orchestra in the U.S. with the best performance venues; Playhouse Square is one of the nation's best performing arts centers; Cleveland has all three major pro sports, all located in downtown venues conveniently reached by mass transit, including rail, and short walks from vibrant entertainment/dining districts -- Gateway, Warehouse District, and East Flats -- and the vibrant Market District is easily reached by car or mass transit (including the West 25th St. Red Line rail rapid station); the Cleveland Museum of Art is one of the nation's best and far better than the Columbus Museum of Art. The Columbus Museum of Art never will host an exhibit of this caliber.
The draw of Cleveland's attractions is demonstrated by the building and conversion of luxury apartments downtown and in University Circle, all connected by the 24/7 Healthline bus rapid, which also provides east access to the main campuses of the Cleveland Clinic and University Hospitals.
Housing prices are lower in Greater Cleveland and per capita personal income is significantly higher than in Greater Columbus.
Columbus boosters not only ignorantly denigrate Cleveland's cultural and pro sports amenities, but also Lake Erie as a tremendous recreational asset. Lake Erie freshwater surf beaches are very popular and much cleaner than in Lake Erie's western basin and than many U.S. ocean beaches, given massive investment in Greater Cleveland sewage systems in the 21st century. Despite claims to the contrary in this thread, the Lake Erie boating culture, fishing, and beach attendance far surpass anything in Greater Columbus. E.g., the Cleveland Metroparks offer sailing classes. How many yacht clubs are in Columbus?
Obviously, there are lovers of classical music who find Greater Cleveland one of the most desired locations in the nation.
And many posters in this forum also obviously are culturally deprived and their comments assume all Americans are similarly disinterested in high culture. Ridiculously wrong, especially among many higher income and better educated individuals, especially those with liberal arts educations. I wonder if the obviously uncultured posters in this thread ever have attended a Cleveland Orchestra concert at Severance Hall, a Blossom Musical Festival event, a performance at one of Playhouse Square's several unique theaters, or even set foot inside the Cleveland Museum of Art in the last decade.
The New York Times gets it, even if foolish Columbus-is-the-best-city-in-the-Midwest posters don't. Do a Google search for these articles to circumvent the NY Times paywall, if necessary.
And Columbus boosters also ridiculously argue that Ohio State sports, and NHL and MLS teams are adequate substitutes for MLB, NFL, and NBA franchises.
Here are some dated travel articles that reinforce the attractiveness of Cleveland's cultural, pro sports, and other amenities, many of which aren't even mentioned in this post. Can the Columbus promoters provide anything remotely similar for Greater Columbus???
What's nutty is that you think people actually move somewhere for an orchestra. No doubt Cleveland blows Cbus out of the water with it's cultural amenities but who is moving to these peer cities for their great cultural institutions?? Clearly no one is to Cleveland or else we would have seen some sort of metro growth by now. Again Cbus is average, nothing special but it offers a great mix job opportunities that in the end, make it more attractive to me and it seems others as well.
funny i don’t remember mentioning any orchestra. but it is true that there is a lot more to do, way better quality cultural everything.
idk bro i left boston and quit my job had nothing moving back to cleveland. then i was full time employed in a month. people love for…. drum roll…. A LOT OF OTHER THINGS!
you make it sound like nobody in cleveland has a job and there is no money to make. just obviously false.
funny i don’t remember mentioning any orchestra. but it is true that there is a lot more to do, way better quality cultural everything.
idk bro i left boston and quit my job had nothing moving back to cleveland. then i was full time employed in a month. people love for…. drum roll…. A LOT OF OTHER THINGS!
you make it sound like nobody in cleveland has a job and there is no money to make. just obviously false.
I think you meant to quote my post.
Quote:
I think a lot of you guys are hitting the nail on the head. People need and move to various locations for....drum rolll please.....JOBS! Cities like Detroit, Toledo, Cleveland, Dayton, etc have lost mass people because they lost mass jobs. Columbus migration is in part from within the state of Ohio. What does Columbus have that hard hit post-manufacturing cities do not? JOBS. Columbus biggest strength is it's economy and a strong economy will bring people. So, yes, the amenities of a location can make a difference when a person is finacially secure enough to be able to "choose" where they want to live based on amenities and such but, as many here have noted, who moves to a city based on cultural factors. Yes, they can be contributing factors, but in and of themselves not so much. You know what motivates a lot of people to move? Survival and to survive people need work.
And if you look carefully I never made it sound like nobody in Cleveland has a job. I simply stated that the manufacturing based cities listed have lost mass jobs compared to their glory days supporting the automotive industry. For example, Dayton lost the Morraine GM assembly plant closed in 2008 and 2400 people lost their jobs. Add that to the long list of closures in the area and you have a lot of jobs lost and that lead to a lot of people leaving Dayton. Are you saying the same didn't happen in Cleveland except on a larger scale?
I also mentioned that amenities can play a more significant factor in one's decision to relocate to an area if one if more financially stable. Sounds like you were financially stable enough to quit a job and move and find a job after you got there. That's a different scenario from losing your livily hood and having to relocate to an area with better opportunities than your current situation offers. Obviously, that's is sector dependant, meaning that there are unaffected sectors in Cleveland, et. al., where folks still prosper. Job loss/creation is a significant factor in relocation. Would you move to an area that doesn't offer opportunity in your sector of employment?
Thats all I was saying...that it's a contributing factor, not the be all endall.
What's nutty is that you think people actually move somewhere for an orchestra. No doubt Cleveland blows Cbus out of the water with it's cultural amenities but who is moving to these peer cities for their great cultural institutions?? Clearly no one is to Cleveland or else we would have seen some sort of metro growth by now. Again Cbus is average, nothing special but it offers a great mix job opportunities that in the end, make it more attractive to me and it seems others as well.
No, Columbus is not average. It's way above average. (For its peer group.)
However, average overall? I'd say it's even above average overall.
Remember, there are only about five or six unique metros in this country. Everything else is basically the same, just different terrain and different weather. I'd say, New York, Boston, DC, Denver, Chicago and San Francisco offer something unique you can't get anywhere else. Everything else is basically the same and you have to judge that on curb appeal and clean living.
To me, I don't like old decrepit places that are long in the tooth. Columbus is nice and new and green. It has plenty of high quality places and things to do that affect my everyday life. Low cost structure, good shopping, decent restaurants, easy commute, bike trails. I'll take that any day over some orchestra I might visit one time in 30 years. (And I have been to Severance Hall to see the Cleveland Orchestra within the last 10 years. Once was enough.)
No, Columbus is not average. It's way above average. (For its peer group.)
However, average overall? I'd say it's even above average overall.
Remember, there are only about five or six unique metros in this country. Everything else is basically the same, just different terrain and different weather. I'd say, New York, Boston, DC, Denver, Chicago and San Francisco offer something unique you can't get anywhere else. Everything else is basically the same and you have to judge that on curb appeal and clean living.
To me, I don't like old decrepit places that are long in the tooth. Columbus is nice and new and green. It has plenty of high quality places and things to do that affect my everyday life. Low cost structure, good shopping, decent restaurants, easy commute, bike trails. I'll take that any day over some orchestra I might visit one time in 30 years. (And I have been to Severance Hall to see the Cleveland Orchestra within the last 10 years. Once was enough.)
you’re the one fixated on the orchestra.
at least cleveland has stuff people travel to see. columbus residents come to see the orchestra, the museums, the ethnic restaurants, the pro sports etc. absolutely nobody goes to columbus for these things. overall it’s just a very mediocre place. not much to do really. i’ll take “decrepit” cleveland over some milquetoast, vanilla, cowtown with no culture.
... jobs lost and that lead to a lot of people leaving Dayton. Are you saying the same didn't happen in Cleveland except on a larger scale?
I don't care about the city of Dayton. It's mostly a s*** hole. I wish you people would get it through your heads that it's the metro area that counts. The metro area is what brings amenities, not the population of any one particular municipality.
The metro area in Dayton is fine both in population and in amenities.
Dayton has also always had a big transient population because of the Air Force Base and the big corporations that used to be headquartered there.
Dayton is average, probably. Maybe even slightly above average given all the nice things along I-675.
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