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The Cleveland Museum of Art is a gimmick, you heard it here first.
The people on here that love Columbus so much are always so quick to say that legacy things don't matter. Public transit doesn't matter, culture doesn't matter, good archtecture doesn't matter etc. This is such a bad way to defend Columbus. They don't even try to make the point that critics are misinformed and bring up things about the city we don't know. Fact is, Columbus is extremely easy to figure out, and it's hard to not. The problem is that once you see how boring and bland it is, well, you're right. Defending Columbus by saying the Cleveland Museum of Art sucks is such a loser mentality. I hope this logic is extended to places like NYC, Boston, Philadelphia, etc. All gimmicky cities!
Here, I am going to defend Columbus for real in a way that these homers can't:
What Columbus lacks in legacy city amenities and characteristics, it makes up for in human capital, in thanks largely to the top 50 nationwide Ohio State University, which brings in some of the highest achievers across the state. The staffing requirements of a massive university along with state government has provided Columbus a base of decently paid people that are less subject to economic difficulties. Whether or not it is "fair" to concentrate all these state resources in Columbus is another question, the fact is that's what we have.
The central areas of the city are just as good as any such neighborhoods in Cincinnati or Cleveland. The general area that includes the Short North, Victorian Village, German Village, Italian Village, and Olde Towne East is comparable to Cleveland's near west side and exceeds it actually on several levels: the street activity, variety of shops and other retail, better central location without having to cross something like a massive bridge, the architecture and urban design here is also just as good if not beter. If you zoom out a bit and want to look at the entire High Street Corridor, there is a quality urban, dense, amenity filled stretch from Merion VIllage all the way to Worthington, over 10 miles. This is no small area. In fact, Clevleland and Cincinnati have no stretch even half as long.
Columbus does not have the legacy cultural amenities of the other C's. For those, a Columbus resident does indeed have to visit Cleveland or Cincinnati. However, what Columbus does have is often underrated, including the Wexner Center for the Arts, COSI, King Arts Complex, and Columbus Metropolitan Library, which all feature high quality programming for local residents.
Columbus's largest failing is the lack of public transit, which is even more compounded by the fact that many neighborhoods not off the High Street corridor are frankly not walkable too. There is no sugar coating this, it's a challenge that must be overcome. With continued growth and development, I believe it will be addressed, though efforts to this point have been subpar.
The hardest to "solve" problem in Columbus is it's lack of an identity, as Columbus does not have the same historical patterns of immigration and development of legacy cities. The roots here are not as deep, and the thing that most people have in common now is going to the same university, which while fine, is not the same as having been on the same boat over here, belonging to the same religion or other much deeper things that Cleveland and Cincinnati folks have. There are not many multigenerational Columbus families. However, this is also an opportunity for something new to take root. America fundamentally is a forward looking country, so while it is certainly not bad to be rooted in older things or places, I believe Columbus will gain that rootedness in other ways that are less obvious at the moment. For the time being, that atmosphere is best left to the other C's.
Though crime has been bad across the state lately, Columbus still has better crime stats than Cleveland and Cincinnati overall.
Columbus doesn't have the most popular pro sports, but there is no better place if you are a big College Football fan with the Buckeyes. But it's more than football, OSU also has teams across all sports which can be enjoyed for a fraction of the cost of professional leagues, such as OSU basketball or hockey. Speaking of hockey, Columbus Blue Jackets are the only NHL team in Ohio. Columbus Crew MLS team has been historically successful and has a lovely new stadium downtown. The Columbus Clippers are the highest baseball league besides the MLB and affiliated with the Cleveland Guardians. It's a great place to see big leaguers on rehab stints or the next up and coming stars, again, at a fraction of the price.
Proximity to Hocking Hills also cannot be overlooked at about an hour southeast of the city. While not in the metropolitan area itself, Hocking Hills remains the most popular hiking desitnation for Central Ohioans and is the most dramatic in the state, far exceeding Cuyahoga Valley National Park.
Columbus also threads the needle in terms of weather, warmer and less snowy than Cleveland in winter but also not as oppressively hot as Cincinnati in the summer. It's rare in Columbus to have days that you really feel you just can't go outside.
The various Ohio cities taken together would really be an ultimate megalopolis if they were all contiguous. You'd have something for everyone and would not lack in quality compared to even coastal cities or Chicago. They each have slightly different strengths and weaknesses that can appeal to various people depending on preference. On a few objective measures, I can't claim that Columbus is obviously the superior of the three, but I have reason to believe that 10, 20 years in the future that gap will be closed. I would rather be a part of forging that path now than walking the well tred paths of the other two major Ohio cities.
Bjimmy24...I've seen your posts on here for quite a while...this is by far the BEST post in this thread...you gave a detailed, concise analysis of the differences and delights of Columbus, Cincinnati, and Cleveland, without throwing shade, in your own 'tough, but fair' way...I have a unique perspective as I have lived in all three, and have been living in Columbus for the last 7 years...thank you once again for your spot-on analysis
^I clearly acknowledged Cleveland and its neighborhood progress is not perfect and there's a ways to go. But banging the City for crime and schools is "lazy." Insert Chicago, Philly, Detroit, Cincy, etc, etc, and you can make the same statement.
It's not lazy, it's about the standards for what drives people to want to live somewhere. If the perception of a place is that it's dangerous, that it doesn't have economic opportunities, that its schools and infrastructure are subpar, people will stay away and economic growth will be less than it should. You can have all the museums and sports teams there are, but that won't change the perception.
Also, crime in Columbus is bad. It's no picnic out here. Second most homicides ever in 2023, up from 2022. In the last two weeks, I've had a package taken and car broken into twice. It's kinda miserable.
Homicides were up slightly from last year and remain an issue, but long-term trends for the vast majority of crimes is down. 2022 was one of the lowest years for most crime rates on record. We won't have full 2023 figures for a while. Also, Cleveland's homicide rate was almost 3x higher in 2023, so if you think Columbus is bad, what must you think of Cleveland? What must other people think of it when deciding where to move?
Well, sorry that the totality of your experience with the folks in Columbus was not positive. Sounds like their perceptions about Cleveland hit a bit too close to home for you. My guess is that they probably aren't as familiar as the Cleveland area as you are, and their thoughts may be not as well considered as your own. But it sounds like you found a place to live where you are comfortable and to the extent you want to revisit any of your old haunts in Columbus, they are just a few hours down the road.
You shouldn't really take their word for it. They go on and on and on here about how people from Columbus- of which there may be 1-2 people from what I can tell- constantly attack their hometowns, but it's just not reality. Certainly not here. I bet if we counted up all the posts being negative about Columbus vs negative about Cleveland/Cincinnati in the past year, it wouldn't even be close. Columbus, by far, gets the most negative comments from people. They will tell you they are just stating facts, that it's in response to the imagined tsunami of Columbus homerism, but it's all just fabrications and exaggerations and it seems like it's been the case for many years.
Just look at my comments. I'm not even from Columbus, but me suggesting that Cleveland isn't as attractive for people due to real conditions related to the economy, crime, schools, infrastructure, etc. are seen as attacks rather than just a statement of what some of the real issues are, just like issues like housing shortages, cost and lack of transit are some of Columbus'. I went out of my way to state that it was not about saying Cleveland was inferior, just that they were issues that leadership had to address if they wanted a true turnaround like its peer Cincinnati is having. Whether they agree or not, I think Cleveland often loses focus putting so much attention on its flashy amenities and little else. Even its own homers do that here, constantly reminding everyone that Cleveland has more sports, museums and an orchestra. It's rarely about neighborhood or housing quality, safety, progressive culture, schools, etc. I think that is very telling, to be honest. Cleveland has a lot of potential, and I think these deflections away from its issues by its defenders and leadership is why it hasn't progressed further than it has. People need to be forward-thinking about Cleveland's future, and yet so often people can't stop talking about something it gained many decades ago.
You shouldn't really take their word for it. They go on and on and on here about how people from Columbus- of which there may be 1-2 people from what I can tell- constantly attack their hometowns, but it's just not reality. Certainly not here. I bet if we counted up all the posts being negative about Columbus vs negative about Cleveland/Cincinnati in the past year, it wouldn't even be close. Columbus, by far, gets the most negative comments from people. They will tell you they are just stating facts, that it's in response to the imagined tsunami of Columbus homerism, but it's all just fabrications and exaggerations and it seems like it's been the case for many years.
Just look at my comments. I'm not even from Columbus, but me suggesting that Cleveland isn't as attractive for people due to real conditions related to the economy, crime, schools, infrastructure, etc. are seen as attacks rather than just a statement of what some of the real issues are, just like issues like housing shortages, cost and lack of transit are some of Columbus'. I went out of my way to state that it was not about saying Cleveland was inferior, just that they were issues that leadership had to address if they wanted a true turnaround like its peer Cincinnati is having. Whether they agree or not, I think Cleveland often loses focus putting so much attention on its flashy amenities and little else. Even its own homers do that here, constantly reminding everyone that Cleveland has more sports, museums and an orchestra. It's rarely about neighborhood or housing quality, safety, progressive culture, schools, etc. I think that is very telling, to be honest. Cleveland has a lot of potential, and I think these deflections away from its issues by its defenders and leadership is why it hasn't progressed further than it has. People need to be forward-thinking about Cleveland's future, and yet so often people can't stop talking about something it gained many decades ago.
Interesting thoughts…people are curious beings aren’t they? I wouldn’t overthink it or come down too hard on folks who “bad mouth” Columbus here. It’s an anonymous forum and people probably tend to be a lot more flip and outlandish with their opinions when they can just hide behind a faceless screen name. Like I said before, there really isn’t a right or wrong here—-Columbus may be great for you for a variety of unique reasons that don't resonate with others. Similarly, others may hate the place for factors that you might generally agree with, but for whatever reason, just aren’t important to you.
Whenever I visit Columbus or Cleveland (full disclosure: I’m not in Cleveland much) it always feels very different than being in Cincinnati. Some of that difference is good, some is not. But on the whole, I like having 3 decent sized metro areas with different “vibes”…it would kind of suck if we had 3 cities exactly like Cincinnati.
Interesting thoughts…people are curious beings aren’t they? I wouldn’t overthink it or come down too hard on folks who “bad mouth” Columbus here. It’s an anonymous forum and people probably tend to be a lot more flip and outlandish with their opinions when they can just hide behind a faceless screen name. Like I said before, there really isn’t a right or wrong here—-Columbus may be great for you for a variety of unique reasons that don't resonate with others. Similarly, others may hate the place for factors that you might generally agree with, but for whatever reason, just aren’t important to you.
Whenever I visit Columbus or Cleveland (full disclosure: I’m not in Cleveland much) it always feels very different than being in Cincinnati. Some of that difference is good, some is not. But on the whole, I like having 3 decent sized metro areas with different “vibes”…it would kind of suck if we had 3 cities exactly like Cincinnati.
I think it's just kind of like a middle school popularity contest mentality in here too often. We can't have honest discussions about flaws of Ohio's cities- and they all have flaws- without seemingly tearing down another. But it's not just the defleciton and "I know you are but what am I" kind of responses, but the fact that the criticisms themselves are often just pointless exaggerations and half-truths meant to rile people up, not debate honestly. The "Columbus is worse than Peoria" comment being just one example. That's not just a subjective difference of opinion. That's just a ridiculous statement meant to just to be negative and get a response, the same as if someone said Cleveland had no redeeming qualities whatsoever. Statements like that are a big reason why threads like this always spiral downward. I wish there were more Columbus posters here, but I can understand why there aren't.
I agree with you. Each of the 3-Cs has a different vibe, and I think that's a good thing.
The Cleveland Museum of Art is a gimmick, you heard it here first.
The people on here that love Columbus so much are always so quick to say that legacy things don't matter. Public transit doesn't matter, culture doesn't matter, good archtecture doesn't matter etc. This is such a bad way to defend Columbus. They don't even try to make the point that critics are misinformed and bring up things about the city we don't know. Fact is, Columbus is extremely easy to figure out, and it's hard to not. The problem is that once you see how boring and bland it is, well, you're right. Defending Columbus by saying the Cleveland Museum of Art sucks is such a loser mentality. I hope this logic is extended to places like NYC, Boston, Philadelphia, etc. All gimmicky cities!
Here, I am going to defend Columbus for real in a way that these homers can't:
What Columbus lacks in legacy city amenities and characteristics, it makes up for in human capital, in thanks largely to the top 50 nationwide Ohio State University, which brings in some of the highest achievers across the state. The staffing requirements of a massive university along with state government has provided Columbus a base of decently paid people that are less subject to economic difficulties. Whether or not it is "fair" to concentrate all these state resources in Columbus is another question, the fact is that's what we have.
The central areas of the city are just as good as any such neighborhoods in Cincinnati or Cleveland. The general area that includes the Short North, Victorian Village, German Village, Italian Village, and Olde Towne East is comparable to Cleveland's near west side and exceeds it actually on several levels: the street activity, variety of shops and other retail, better central location without having to cross something like a massive bridge, the architecture and urban design here is also just as good if not beter. If you zoom out a bit and want to look at the entire High Street Corridor, there is a quality urban, dense, amenity filled stretch from Merion VIllage all the way to Worthington, over 10 miles. This is no small area. In fact, Clevleland and Cincinnati have no stretch even half as long.
Columbus does not have the legacy cultural amenities of the other C's. For those, a Columbus resident does indeed have to visit Cleveland or Cincinnati. However, what Columbus does have is often underrated, including the Wexner Center for the Arts, COSI, King Arts Complex, and Columbus Metropolitan Library, which all feature high quality programming for local residents.
Columbus's largest failing is the lack of public transit, which is even more compounded by the fact that many neighborhoods not off the High Street corridor are frankly not walkable too. There is no sugar coating this, it's a challenge that must be overcome. With continued growth and development, I believe it will be addressed, though efforts to this point have been subpar.
The hardest to "solve" problem in Columbus is it's lack of an identity, as Columbus does not have the same historical patterns of immigration and development of legacy cities. The roots here are not as deep, and the thing that most people have in common now is going to the same university, which while fine, is not the same as having been on the same boat over here, belonging to the same religion or other much deeper things that Cleveland and Cincinnati folks have. There are not many multigenerational Columbus families. However, this is also an opportunity for something new to take root. America fundamentally is a forward looking country, so while it is certainly not bad to be rooted in older things or places, I believe Columbus will gain that rootedness in other ways that are less obvious at the moment. For the time being, that atmosphere is best left to the other C's.
Though crime has been bad across the state lately, Columbus still has better crime stats than Cleveland and Cincinnati overall.
Columbus doesn't have the most popular pro sports, but there is no better place if you are a big College Football fan with the Buckeyes. But it's more than football, OSU also has teams across all sports which can be enjoyed for a fraction of the cost of professional leagues, such as OSU basketball or hockey. Speaking of hockey, Columbus Blue Jackets are the only NHL team in Ohio. Columbus Crew MLS team has been historically successful and has a lovely new stadium downtown. The Columbus Clippers are the highest baseball league besides the MLB and affiliated with the Cleveland Guardians. It's a great place to see big leaguers on rehab stints or the next up and coming stars, again, at a fraction of the price.
Proximity to Hocking Hills also cannot be overlooked at about an hour southeast of the city. While not in the metropolitan area itself, Hocking Hills remains the most popular hiking desitnation for Central Ohioans and is the most dramatic in the state, far exceeding Cuyahoga Valley National Park.
Columbus also threads the needle in terms of weather, warmer and less snowy than Cleveland in winter but also not as oppressively hot as Cincinnati in the summer. It's rare in Columbus to have days that you really feel you just can't go outside.
The various Ohio cities taken together would really be an ultimate megalopolis if they were all contiguous. You'd have something for everyone and would not lack in quality compared to even coastal cities or Chicago. They each have slightly different strengths and weaknesses that can appeal to various people depending on preference. On a few objective measures, I can't claim that Columbus is obviously the superior of the three, but I have reason to believe that 10, 20 years in the future that gap will be closed. I would rather be a part of forging that path now than walking the well tred paths of the other two major Ohio cities.
Another thing that homers usually miss is the huge OSU sub-culture that is accessible to everyone.
Another thing that homers usually miss is the huge OSU sub-culture that is accessible to everyone.
People in Columbus who view it as a true metropolis, urban paradise of the midwest, are very embarrassed by Ohio State and especially its association with football. Ironic, because Ohio State is basically the most important driver for anything good about the city.
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