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I think people should stop being afraid to ride a bus , alot people in suburbs without Rail service ride them at least West of NYC....this seems to be less common east of NYC. Your no more unsafe riding a bus then a train... Bus Ridership also makes up for a bulk of the Transportation use , although it should even out with Rail ridership by 2030.
As someone who took city buses as the main form of transportation for years (Bridgeport), buses can be good. But the lack of funding shows up in service which hampers the ability to grow ridership. Slow, low amount of headways, awkward routes (basically the inability to get to places without a transfer at the single bus station), lack of shelters, and poor distribution of information when on the route. A lot of transit districts thought that just newer and cleaner buses would solve the issue, and while it makes the experience heads over shoulders better the other factors really keep people in their cars.
Bus lanes, smart signaling on all routes, easier payment options (like kiosks), loop routes that connect the lines halfway through, shorter headways, and more actual bus stations could really make a dent in getting people viable alternatives for transportation. The issue: as always resources.
I think we should stop talking about rail funding for awhile. Our governor is about to **** away a fortune on a major league pork project known as the New Britain-Hartford Busway which will effectively kill alot of the proposed rail plans in the works, I'm sad to say.
There is no rail plan in the works. It is a pipe dream to think that a commuter rail line can be implemented from Waterbury to Hartford. The tracks need a lot of work to support bidirectional trains for the service and will cost more than double what the busway is going to cost. The busway has been in the planning stages for 15 years. Where were the opponents when it was going through public hearings. Also note that to implement train service with federal funding will mean getting to the back of a very long line and waiting at least 10 years for funding. Jay
Nexis - That is an interesting video. It explains it all very well. I find it interesting that the Waterbury line can't support faster service to New York than going through Bermin. I need to talk ot my rail buddies about that. They know that line well.
As for poeple taking the bus into Hartford, thousands do it everyday and not all are poor. With the busway the service will be clean and reliable and give people a viable option to sitting in traffic on I-84. Jay
Nexis - That is an interesting video. It explains it all very well. I find it interesting that the Waterbury line can't support faster service to New York than going through Bermin. I need to talk ot my rail buddies about that. They know that line well.
As for poeple taking the bus into Hartford, thousands do it everyday and not all are poor. With the busway the service will be clean and reliable and give people a viable option to sitting in traffic on I-84. Jay
Maybe, but from my experience, the time savings through using public transit is usually very marginal (5-10 min), and in many cases, actually takes longer than driving. This is due to waiting times. When I lived in NYC, a 30-minute subway trip would take about 40 minutes if you chose to walk and not use the subway. Half of that 30-minute subway trip was spent waiting at the platform. I didn't find it to be a very time saving transit system at all. I would imagine with buses it would be similar. A commuter would have to drive about 10 minutes off their normal I-84 commute just to get to the bus station, then probably wait another 5-10 min for their bus to show up, and then several stops along the way.
Honestly, I'm willing to bet that a commuter could make it quicker from say Southington to Hartford simply driving on I-84, rather than doing the procedures I mentioned above. Or maybe they'll break even. I think the busway would be a viable option for those who live directly in New Britain near the bus stop, or for those who don't own a car and live in New Britain.
There is no rail plan in the works. It is a pipe dream to think that a commuter rail line can be implemented from Waterbury to Hartford. The tracks need a lot of work to support bidirectional trains for the service and will cost more than double what the busway is going to cost. The busway has been in the planning stages for 15 years. Where were the opponents when it was going through public hearings. Also note that to implement train service with federal funding will mean getting to the back of a very long line and waiting at least 10 years for funding. Jay
I was referring to the Springfield to New Haven line, specifically. You think the Waterbury-Hartford rail is a pie in the sky? Interesting - that's precisely how I feel about the busway. Proponents are hyping what the ridership will be if this gets pushed through, and their figures are wildly optimistic. IMO it's a gross misuse of funds and rail would be a better option for a number of different reasons - chiefly among them it moves faster and, as others have already pointed out, it doesn't have the stigma attached to it that it caters solely to poor people - therefore you have a larger, broader clientele. Every single bus station I've been to, people have always told me to be careful when I go there because they're considered shady - I've never had this problem at a train station. And truth be told, if the buses are going to cater to people who leave garbage and debris both on the buses and on the ground where they get dropped off (as they often do), guess what, that's one less incentive for me (and others) to use it. But I guess for those pushing this through they don't care about that - it's always someone else's problem.
Nexis - That is an interesting video. It explains it all very well. I find it interesting that the Waterbury line can't support faster service to New York than going through Bermin. I need to talk ot my rail buddies about that. They know that line well.
As for poeple taking the bus into Hartford, thousands do it everyday and not all are poor. With the busway the service will be clean and reliable and give people a viable option to sitting in traffic on I-84. Jay
As long as it remains a diesel line it will remain slow. it takes a winding trip thru the Naugatuck Valley. Adding electric to this line would allow quicker acceleration and decceleration when there are straight aways. Diesel can't do that. There is also an issue of the current trackage. You would have to remove hills and add tunnels to make this trip faster. This is similar to what will need to be done with any proposed inland high speed rail from Boston-Hartford-New York City.
Many of today's mass transit users are college age students. College towns all across the country have their own transit systems. 200,000 Boston college students have access to the MBTA and without their usage many lines would either not exist or have much less frequent service. Here in Rhode Island four colleges pay for their students RIPTA usage with just the use of their student ID. If this busway is to work, I am in favor of light rail, it will in addition to the poor and middle class white collar need college student usage. Are there enough Central Ct., U of H, Trinity, Uconn, etc students who will make use of it?
One other point about that You Tube video, good find! Twenty buses an hour and two trains an hour comparison? That means twenty employees with benefits, tire usage, diesel fuel(or whatever type of fuel they use). Light rail could run every 15 minutes with multiple cars when needed. Even heavy rail could run that frequently(preferably electric). I don't think someone on I-84 is going to be impressed by a bus going by them, aren't they already doing that? But a train or light rail, yes indeed!
Honestly, I'm willing to bet that a commuter could make it quicker from say Southington to Hartford simply driving on I-84, rather than doing the procedures I mentioned above. Or maybe they'll break even. I think the busway would be a viable option for those who live directly in New Britain near the bus stop, or for those who don't own a car and live in New Britain.
You obviously have not been on I-84 heading into Hartford in the morning. Traffic crawls if it moves at all from West Hartford to I-91. Also note that part of the plan is to have feeder bus lines connect to the busway from various areas. Jay
I was referring to the Springfield to New Haven line, specifically. You think the Waterbury-Hartford rail is a pie in the sky? Interesting - that's precisely how I feel about the busway. Proponents are hyping what the ridership will be if this gets pushed through, and their figures are wildly optimistic. IMO it's a gross misuse of funds and rail would be a better option for a number of different reasons - chiefly among them it moves faster and, as others have already pointed out, it doesn't have the stigma attached to it that it caters solely to poor people - therefore you have a larger, broader clientele. Every single bus station I've been to, people have always told me to be careful when I go there because they're considered shady - I've never had this problem at a train station. And truth be told, if the buses are going to cater to people who leave garbage and debris both on the buses and on the ground where they get dropped off (as they often do), guess what, that's one less incentive for me (and others) to use it. But I guess for those pushing this through they don't care about that - it's always someone else's problem.
And all subways are dark filthy urine smelling holes like you find in New York. A modern bus system is not like you describe and cater to a wide range of people. Jay
I was referring to the Springfield to New Haven line, specifically. You think the Waterbury-Hartford rail is a pie in the sky? Interesting - that's precisely how I feel about the busway. Proponents are hyping what the ridership will be if this gets pushed through, and their figures are wildly optimistic. IMO it's a gross misuse of funds and rail would be a better option for a number of different reasons - chiefly among them it moves faster and, as others have already pointed out, it doesn't have the stigma attached to it that it caters solely to poor people - therefore you have a larger, broader clientele. Every single bus station I've been to, people have always told me to be careful when I go there because they're considered shady - I've never had this problem at a train station. And truth be told, if the buses are going to cater to people who leave garbage and debris both on the buses and on the ground where they get dropped off (as they often do), guess what, that's one less incentive for me (and others) to use it. But I guess for those pushing this through they don't care about that - it's always someone else's problem.
Then you've never been on the New Haven line , which has the Dirtiest cars in the Northeast....Ive been on Dirty Buses , clean buses , fast buses , slow buses , loud buses , quiet buses , have had rude bus drivers ,nice bus drivers , theres nothing wrong with a bus....I know alot of bus drivers aswell , Buses are put into to place were Rail / Rail Transit will not work. As the case here...
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Originally Posted by mr2448
As long as it remains a diesel line it will remain slow. it takes a winding trip thru the Naugatuck Valley. Adding electric to this line would allow quicker acceleration and decceleration when there are straight aways. Diesel can't do that. There is also an issue of the current trackage. You would have to remove hills and add tunnels to make this trip faster. This is similar to what will need to be done with any proposed inland high speed rail from Boston-Hartford-New York City.
Many of today's mass transit users are college age students. College towns all across the country have their own transit systems. 200,000 Boston college students have access to the MBTA and without their usage many lines would either not exist or have much less frequent service. Here in Rhode Island four colleges pay for their students RIPTA usage with just the use of their student ID. If this busway is to work, I am in favor of light rail, it will in addition to the poor and middle class white collar need college student usage. Are there enough Central Ct., U of H, Trinity, Uconn, etc students who will make use of it?
One other point about that You Tube video, good find! Twenty buses an hour and two trains an hour comparison? That means twenty employees with benefits, tire usage, diesel fuel(or whatever type of fuel they use). Light rail could run every 15 minutes with multiple cars when needed. Even heavy rail could run that frequently(preferably electric). I don't think someone on I-84 is going to be impressed by a bus going by them, aren't they already doing that? But a train or light rail, yes indeed!
Light Rail needs higher densities and will not work in CT. Which is the only state in NE where i don't see it working. Light Rail is also very expensive and its built to carry or in vision carry at least 80,000+ daily. Busways carry at least 40,000 daily with max of 120,000 usually. Every College has a bus system if i'm not mistaken , they usually have it tied into the local or regional system. Adding Electric to the Waterbury line wouldn't do all that much , + the line isn't used that much. Each line should be used by at least 8,000 , your state needs to push those towns to develop around the stations.
And all subways are dark filthy urine smelling holes like you find in New York.
Yes, that's quite an apt description of all the rail stops in Connecticut. That's exactly what I was proposing we have here as well.
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A modern bus system is not like you describe and cater to a wide range of people. Jay
Example?
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Then you've never been on the New Haven line , which has the Dirtiest cars in the Northeast
Hence the reason why they are replacing them with new ones.
Last edited by MikefromCT; 03-23-2011 at 03:09 PM..
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