Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
I don't believe you. Mostly because it's illegal to turn anyone away from the ER if they are having an immediate emergency. They aren't even allowed how the patients are going to pay before treatment.
And coming here illegally is not indicative of other laws they may or may not break. Most of the studies show illegal immigrants are less likely to commit serious crime (although evidence if they do commit a crime it is serious). You're making a heck of a claim, please show real peer-reviewed sociological or criminological papers irrefutably going against what is generally accepted consensus.
~Cheers
Hi Beeker,
I think you are correct that an ER cannot turn away a patient with an emergency ............ the problem, besides the cost that must be absorbed when service is provided for an illegal alien, is the overburdening of the hospital. Since the average illegal alien doesn't have a primary care physician the ER becomes the center for colds, sorethroats, fever, etc. While I think health care should be available to all, when your child has a gash that needs to be sutured at 9pm on a Sunday and you have to wait in line behind people with the flu you might be frustrated too.
I don't any peer-reviewed sociological papers on this issue, only "real-life adventures"
Good luck keeping track of accurate numbers regarding illegals, as many, from personal experience avoid ANY kind of data collection.. Imagine THAT.. duhh..Besides, I don't support ANY breaking of imigration or security laws, like you seem to be OK with. Wonder what else is sneaking in along with illegal immigrants. But there's nothing harmful that can come of that illegal activity, is there??
And really, spending all the time and effort it takes to break a major imigration/security law is NOT indicative of other laws they MAY break. You should spend more time along the borders where these illegals tresspass, take down fences, and otherwise cause problems for hard working farmers, or begin there life of crime in the cities. I don't need ANY "real peer-reviewed sociological or criminological papers" to tell me that. I see it with MY OWN EYES everyday in my travels. I also learn plenty about it from MANY of my LEGAL ,most of them mexican, friends/coworkers. They too complain of having many more benefits when they were ILLEGAL than when being citizens.
And you obviously haven't been to many different ER's if you believe what you posted is how they are actually operated. It must be a very different, and worry free, safe lil, yet smug, bubble that you live in with no illegals around commiting OTHER crimes BESIDES the one that got them into our country.
Also, how bout the thought that even ONE crime commited by an illegal is ONE too many..?? You seem fine with the FEW MAJOR crimes, that only a FEW illegals commit.. awesome.. tell that to their victims, or families of their victims..
You do know that the vast majority of illegal immigrants came here legally, right? The border areas aren't even that unsafe, hate to break it to you. Most of the crime in AZ comes from poor whites, so why not start to deport them? And please, don't call me smug. I know that I'm not an expert on these matters which is why I tend to trust people that have done the leg work and research to get to the root of what's really going on. If you have a problem with the reams of research then that's a different problem, but they can be a tool to fill in our own limited perception.
And I'm not fine with a few major crimes. Where did you get that? But knowing the fact that they are less likely to commit a serious offense immediately helps me understand that there are appropriate tools to deal with any issues they do bring (straining resources, etc) rather than call for their immediate expulsion based on what I think they are doing.
Quiettime,
And my personal experience shows me that most illegal immigrants are just hard working, respectful, family-oriented, and proud. And don't get me wrong, there are some problems but what people are advocating seem to be counter-productive and based more on an emotional need for superiority. Expanding the worker visa programme and making sure claims are handled in a expedient manner? I'm all for that. If an illegal immigrant is caught in a serious crime deporting them? Maybe, depends on the case but not out of the question. Arresting and deporting illegal immigrants because they "might" cause violent offenses? I can not support that because the underlying logic behind it seems faulty.
You do know that the vast majority of illegal immigrants came here legally, right? The border areas aren't even that unsafe, hate to break it to you. Most of the crime in AZ comes from poor whites, so why not start to deport them? And please, don't call me smug. I know that I'm not an expert on these matters which is why I tend to trust people that have done the leg work and research to get to the root of what's really going on. If you have a problem with the reams of research then that's a different problem, but they can be a tool to fill in our own limited perception.
And I'm not fine with a few major crimes. Where did you get that? But knowing the fact that they are less likely to commit a serious offense immediately helps me understand that there are appropriate tools to deal with any issues they do bring (straining resources, etc) rather than call for their immediate expulsion based on what I think they are doing.
Quiettime,
And my personal experience shows me that most illegal immigrants are just hard working, respectful, family-oriented, and proud. And don't get me wrong, there are some problems but what people are advocating seem to be counter-productive and based more on an emotional need for superiority. Expanding the worker visa programme and making sure claims are handled in a expedient manner? I'm all for that. If an illegal immigrant is caught in a serious crime deporting them? Maybe, depends on the case but not out of the question. Arresting and deporting illegal immigrants because they "might" cause violent offenses? I can not support that because the underlying logic behind it seems faulty.
~Paz
That is sooooo far off the mark it's ridiculous. I spend PLENTY of time around border towns in Tx, Az, and Cali myself. Do you?? It is FAR from safe down there, whether you're "packin" or not. I ride and race motorcycles plenty in Mexico also. ANYWHERE near the borders are sooooo sketchy. The farther you get away from the border, the safer it is. I have plenty of friends who ARE Mexican citizens and WILL NOT walk the streets at night in ANY of the border towns that they have to travel through on a daily basis.
That post really just showed me how far from reality you are concerning the BULK of illegals and border areas. Sure in our lil quiet towns up here, most the immigrants, legal or NOT are very quiet and hardworking people. But we / our area is a VERY small percentage of where illegals are. When you spend months at a time immersed in the illegals / Mexican areas and lifestyle like I have and still do from time to time, then maybe you can speak form some place of reality and not from some academic paper or study in which TRUE illegals take NO PART in.
Could the problem be poverty that you witness? Could it be that you associate with people that have that mind set? I'm a little weary of solely personal accounts. My own personal experience is from people that have lived there and complained that the real rationale behind these acts is nothing short of naked racism. So am I to believe you, or some of my friends? I choose neither outright and simply check stats as another viewpoint. It's not the complete picture by any means, but it might help to expose what's just beyond our own perceptions.
That is sooooo far off the mark it's ridiculous. I spend PLENTY of time around border towns in Tx, Az, and Cali myself. Do you?? It is FAR from safe down there, whether you're "packin" or not. I ride and race motorcycles plenty in Mexico also. ANYWHERE near the borders are sooooo sketchy. The farther you get away from the border, the safer it is. I have plenty of friends who ARE Mexican citizens and WILL NOT walk the streets at night in ANY of the border towns that they have to travel through on a daily basis.
That post really just showed me how far from reality you are concerning the BULK of illegals and border areas. Sure in our lil quiet towns up here, most the immigrants, legal or NOT are very quiet and hardworking people. But we / our area is a VERY small percentage of where illegals are. When you spend months at a time immersed in the illegals / Mexican areas and lifestyle like I have and still do from time to time, then maybe you can speak form some place of reality and not from some academic paper or study in which TRUE illegals take NO PART in.
What do you ride? I've done and had just about everything from MX, Enduros, turbo sport bikes, cruisers customs etc. The only brand I have not done so far is BMW...it's a personal battle with a friend who is the motorcycle safety director for CT.
You are totally correct though, I've skimmed the border on two wheels, and four and was going to do a Mexico run about 14 years ago, but even back then after talking to some and doing my own research I decided against it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beeker2211
Could the problem be poverty that you witness?
Hell no. Go there, spend time. It's nucking futs. I would go so far to say that many of the illegals HERE are escaping their own culture on border towns! That's why you see "family hard working leave people alone" illegals here.
What do you ride? I've done and had just about everything from MX, Enduros, turbo sport bikes, cruisers customs etc. The only brand I have not done so far is BMW...it's a personal battle with a friend who is the motorcycle safety director for CT.
You are totally correct though, I've skimmed the border on two wheels, and four and was going to do a Mexico run about 14 years ago, but even back then after talking to some and doing my own research I decided against it.
Hell no. Go there, spend time. It's nucking futs. I would go so far to say that many of the illegals HERE are escaping their own culture on border towns! That's why you see "family hard working leave people alone" illegals here.
I too have done almost all of it on bikes. MX, a few roadraces at Loudon on sport bikes etc...
After being off bikes for over 15 years I got back on a Husqvarna TE610. She has seen 38 states so far, part of the Mexican "mainland" and most of the Baja pinnesula. I love it !! So glad I got back into it. It's a great bike to explore New England in as well, whether back roads, forests or abandoned roads/towns.
No kidding ! I was not joking at all that MOST my Mexican friends WILL NOT go on the streets at night in most border towns. I've done it a few times, and let me tell you, it's completely like going into a war zone. The stuff you see is pretty mindboggling. And it's not like I'm not used to seeing "bad parts of town" . I've been in some of the worst in Detroit, St Loius, South Cali, including Compton. You are on high alert at ALL times. When I've gone looking awfully "scruffy and dirty" I felt the most comfortable. But going looking like you may have more than $5 in your pocket it's freaky. You feel like a plump goose on a deserted island full of marooned boaters. Even the cops give you looks like "WTF are they thinking?" On a bike, people have a LIL more respect for you. Of course it makes you feel much safer in being able to make a quick getaway in alomost any direction on an enduro bike.
It's true, the "good ones" get away from the border towns as fast as possible, hence where we mostly see the hardworking, family types up here.
And as far as using poverty as an excuse for the crime that illegals commit, BS. I've been to plenty of places with more poverty thatn border towns with MUCH less crime. If you are in the country illegally, you are MOST likely doing OTHER things illegal. Some people just stay in their own lil Ct. bubble and only see the "good ones" that probally make up less than 1% of all illegals in our country and don't see the BULK of the illegals. In my travels, both border towns and states like Tx, Az, Ca, Wa, and Oregeon I've probally seen and interacted with more illegals than many of these people with strong imigration views based on what they have read in books will ever see in their whole lifetime, and I'm stil traveling and meeting more everyday.
And I'm sure that "based in racism" comment wasn't directed anywheres towards me, as I'm mixed race myself and enjoy the culture and people of ALL races/creeds. In particularly Mexico, where I have spent so much time it feels like a second home, and I could easily find myself one day living full time in Baja. Obviously, I enjoy being in the company of LAW ABIDING Mexican people. Not so much those that CHOOSE to ILLEGALLY live in our country whether it be out of laziness or CHOOSING to be illegal to either enjoy the greater benefits of being an illegal in our country versus being a citizen or to more easily get away with other criminal activity. It's not THAT hard to become a citizen here. If the tables were turned, I would do the same if I was choosing to build a new life in another country. Fair is fair. Sticking up for ILLEGAL immigration or immigrats is akin to encouraging lawlessness
Could the problem be poverty that you witness? Could it be that you associate with people that have that mind set? I'm a little weary of solely personal accounts. My own personal experience is from people that have lived there and complained that the real rationale behind these acts is nothing short of naked racism. So am I to believe you, or some of my friends? I choose neither outright and simply check stats as another viewpoint. It's not the complete picture by any means, but it might help to expose what's just beyond our own perceptions.
~Cheers
and where EXACTLY is "there"??
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
What do you ride? I've done and had just about everything from MX, Enduros, turbo sport bikes, cruisers customs etc. The only brand I have not done so far is BMW...it's a personal battle with a friend who is the motorcycle safety director for CT. 
