[kidyankee764]

Originally Posted by mlassoff

I'd support that the state of Connecticut offer in-state tution as soon as colleges in NY, NJ, etc. do the same.

You're missing my point. Under this proposal, people who are American citizens, in some cases, living 10 miles from WCSU, have to pay 60% more than people who don't even belong in this country.

Originally Posted by mlassoff

Which is their choice... There are excellent universities in all surrounding states. I choose to pay out of state fees in Texas because of their nationally renowned compute science program. That couldn't be replicated here so it was worth the extra investment.

Again, you're missing the point. See above.

Originally Posted by mlassoff

Your not footing the bill in any great fashion than for a high school graduate from Hamden who goes to SCSU. The beneficiary of this program graduated from a Connecticut high school, with achievement significant enough to get in to a state college. Why put up road blocks, instead of encouraging them to better themselves? Don't we want to avoid the conditions you describe in your post becoming a cycle of poverty and illegality?

I hear you on poverty, but what kind of message are we sending to the world? Why continue to cater to people, and allow them to suck our tit dry while there are well-educated people in other countries on years-long waiting lists? Again, they graduated from a CT high school, their tuition for that school paid by us (you and me, the American taxpayers) while they work under the table and contribute next to nothing.

Originally Posted by mlassoff

I also hope you won't be the one complaining when you're paying $4.50 a pound for Apples.

It almost sounds as if you're promoting slave labor with that comment. I'd rather spend 4.50 a pound for Apples, as I feel with a revamped immigration policy, we would be far better off in other areas.

[kidyankee764]

Originally Posted by mlassoff

It's fun to have a group to be superior to, isn't it!?!

You certainly can compare foreign students in our state college system. With Americans out of work, why do we accept these students, train them and then offer them H1B's to continue to work here?

Because there are just as many Americans studying in other countries learning similar (and arguably better) skills. So no, you cannot compare.

[hartford_renter]

Originally Posted by kidyankee764

After not showing my face on these boards for a few weeks, I knew there would be a thread on this so I had to come back.

This really ticks me off.

WCSU has a good percentage of students who come from Westchester, Putnam, and Dutchess County, as well as from Jersey and Mass. These documented residents pay taxes, are hardworking, and bust their butts to get by to pay the high out-of-state tuition. The fact that a mother can move to Danbury with her five kids from Ecuador, live in a studio apartment with 15 other people (often times, many more), have their healthcare paid by CT residents, have their public education paid by CT residents, drive unregistered and uninsured vehicles AND now get a discount on higher education? What the F&$#?! Don't even try to say that these people pay taxes - you have to be documented to pay and most chains, etc make sure of that. Take a walk by the bus station in downtown Danbury sometime and see how many of them get paid under the table for odd jobs. Go into a mom and pop restaurant and watch the owner give them an envelope after their day is done. Check out how many of them are doing yard work for landscapers and contractors in the suburbs.

I can understand where you're coming from Mlassoff, with regards to helping the brightest succeed, as it's not their fault they ended up here. But it's not mine (or your) fault that we have to foot the bill for these people. We need to round them up and kick them out without any notice. See ya. We've been far too tolerant for far too long - and people wonder why the American economy is crumbling. Don't for one second think this doesn't assist in the economic downturn and take jobs away from other Americans, and cost our cities and towns exorbitant amount of cash. (See Official Document Shows Danbury Hospital In CT Paid $4 Million For Illegal Alien Care In Q1 & Q2 2006 : Diggers Realm ) Four million dollars for one hospital in one year.

This is an outrage.

I couldn't agree more. It is an outrage.

This is why I voted republican.

[Tin Knocker]

Originally Posted by mlassoff

Except for that whole getting thrown out of the country without a moment's notice thing... And the fact that the GI Bill pays a lot of college tuitions.. These illegal aliens still have to come up with tuition money....

I am for this... Why wouldn't we do what we can to take someone from being a drag on the system to a contributing citizen?

I can understand the reasons someone would be against this. Let's not make up reasons that aren't based in truth, ok?

If we threw them out without a moments notice they wouldn't be a drag on the system. Heck, if they got nothing, because they dont belong here, they wouldn't be a drag even if we let them stay.

Funny, the liberals made them a drag on the system & now want to give them special treatment so they wont be a drag anymore.
Best way to stop something from dragging you down is to cut it loose.

[hartford_renter]

Originally Posted by mlassoff

It's fun to have a group to be superior to, isn't it!?!

You certainly can compare foreign students in our state college system. With Americans out of work, why do we accept these students, train them and then offer them H1B's to continue to work here? That really does cost American tech jobs. These foreign students are in all majors, but mostly the science and math related majors that we desperately need our students to fill. I'd much rather give that slot to a kid who went to an American high school who is here illegally through no fault of his/her own....

Sorry this argument that we have a "shortage" of high tech workers is simply not true. Companies want cheap labor, this will never change.

Actually we have an oversupply of scientists.

The Real Science Gap | Smart Journalism. Real Solutions. Miller-McCune.

[mlassoff]

Originally Posted by Tin Knocker

Funny, the liberals made them a drag on the system & now want to give them special treatment so they wont be a drag anymore.
Best way to stop something from dragging you down is to cut it loose.

How is treating them the same way we treat every other Connecticut high school graduate giving them "special" treatment?

[mlassoff]

Originally Posted by kidyankee764

It almost sounds as if you're promoting slave labor with that comment. I'd rather spend 4.50 a pound for Apples, as I feel with a revamped immigration policy, we would be far better off in other areas.

I don't think most Americans feel the way you do. They're all too willing to enjoy the "fruits" (sorry ) of immigrant labor-- low cost produce, lower cost homes, cheap landscaping services, but at the same time want to scream that the illegal immigrants should be rounded up en masse and escorted back to Mexico...

It's kind of like wanting to pay off the deficit, lower taxes but not cut services.

Americans magical thinking... Immigration is another area where the reality doesn't meet the road. If produce went up 150% you'd hear screaming and blaming.

[RedJacket]

Originally Posted by mlassoff

Except for that whole getting thrown out of the country without a moment's notice thing... And the fact that the GI Bill pays a lot of college tuitions.. These illegal aliens still have to come up with tuition money....

I can understand the reasons someone would be against this. Let's not make up reasons that aren't based in truth, ok?

Well, I figured most would get my point and realize I was just exaggerating a point to make a point. I guess not.

Giving illegals a tuition break is just wrong. Since when do we reward illegal behavior in this country?

The old canard that educating them will make them more productive is nonsense. I don't care how productive they are, the point is, they're here illegally, whether because of their own actions, or their parents.

There's plenty of legal people in this country who'd like a financial break right now and can't get it. Why not invite students from your neighboring states to come to CT and enjoy in-state tuition fees?

Jobs are scarce as hens teeth in CT and elsewhere, so instead of rewarding illegal behavior, why not offer to retrain/educate legal CT residents at a deep discount.

The fact that taxpayers have to foot the bill for people who in many cases don't pay taxes, is insanity.

[mlassoff]

Originally Posted by think first

Well, I figured most would get my point and realize I was just exaggerating a point to make a point. I guess not.

Giving illegals a tuition break is just wrong. Since when do we reward illegal behavior in this country?

The old canard that educating them will make them more productive is nonsense. I don't care how productive they are, the point is, they're here illegally, whether because of their own actions, or their parents.

There's plenty of legal people in this country who'd like a financial break right now and can't get it. Why not invite students from your neighboring states to come to CT and enjoy in-state tuition fees?

Jobs are scare as hens teeth in CT and elsewhere, so instead of rewarding illegal behavior, why not offer to retrain/educate legal CT residents at a deep discount.

The fact that taxpayers have to foot the bill for people who in many cases don't pay taxes, is insanity.

I can see most of your viewpoint. However, I almost always believe that education has intrinsic value and is not something we should necessarily ration. I guess I don't get as upset about them being hear illegally. Maybe I am not quite the "law and order" guy you are. I just don't get upset about a civil immigration infraction versus some kind of violent criminal action. (We do let felons in to our university system in hopes they can better themselves through education...)

I don't see how providing the same tuition for undocumented immigrants who are graduates of CT high schools that we provide for ALL CT high school graduates is rewarding illegal behavior. The behavior we're rewarding is studying hard, working hard and graduating with grades sufficient to go to college....

Are you saying the children of illegal immigrants who had nothing to do with being here should only have the options of (a) leaving or (b) being a part of a permanent underclass? Surely education and a reasonable path to citizenship / and or legal residence for those who educate themselves and contribute is a better outcome for all of us?

[basehead617]

mlassoff is right on the money throughout this thread.

Citizenship is already well defined, and it comes with a well-defined set of rights and responsibilities - none of them have anything to do with getting a quality education or telling college administrations how to run their finances.

It's fine to be proud of your citizenship, but it does not imply things that are not laid down in the law, nor does it make you superior to a non-citizen except perhaps in your own mind.