There is a a secret bio-warfare island off our coast. (Old Lyme: for sale, universities)
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Another interesting video about how Freud's cousin used his knowledge of human behavior to create trouble in a banana republic because they wanted to throw out an associates food company! Edward Bernays.
For people who don't think this kind of manipulation goes on:
LOL Look at it this way. Top to bottom are the two extremes of "No government control, and full government control." Left and right are how that government looks.
A conservative can still wish for government control as much as a liberal. For instance, the question about gay marriage.
Conseratives might say the state should outlaw it.
Liberals might say the state should allow it.
A Libertarian would say "what the hell business is it of the state to marry people?"
A statist would say "the state should force people to marry for the betterment of society".
I was dead center left to right but up near the top. So basically I'm a centrist who believes in very small government.
Oh I don't disagree. But we can't carpet bomb every country that pulls something like this. I think we can do things "covert" physically and politically and be just as effective. Some rangers dropping in on Kadafi for dinner and then slipping out is fine with me.
Thanks for the link JV, not big surprises, I came in a Libertarian. I think had a couple questions had other options I might have scored slightly different but I'm fine with libertarian for the most part.
As far as Lybia, they havent attacked us, Lockerbie was in Scotland, & West Germany is in Germany.
Granted our citizens were effected but when has anybody come running to punish an agressor who killed their people here. 9/11 is a great example, a handfull of SAUDIS attacked us, very few were willing to help at all & nobody took it out on the Saudis.
More on topic I find it very ironic that we act holier than thou regarding "terrorist states" when for the most part their attacks are in response to decades of unwanted western & US intervention & influences. Not to mention that we deny them the ability to develop the same weapons we have perfected & are still working on. NOBODY has ever used nukes except us, not saying its right or wrong, I think it was justified, but how do you justify denying keeping them away from others who have never remotely aproached the lever of carnage we wraught on an Island nation already on the verge of collapse?
IF our govt thought its ongoing research & development into these things was justifyable there would be no need for coverups, secrecy to a degree yes but outright denial & cover ups no.
Its not a conspiracy fruitcake that realizes the obvious intent & consequences of whats going on, its a rational objective thinking person.
On another note, having something like this in LI Sound is nothing short of stupid if concern for our people is a priority. LI sound is not the Nevada desert or the mid Pacific. Its a hands breadth from many millions of people, the only reason I can imagine for choosing such a site brings to mind all sorts of unimaginable scenerios. It is not a place they would choose if secrecy & confidentiality were their number one goal. That much is certain. It IS a great place to slip things into the population without detection or commit any number of other acts that we cannot concieve of our govt doing.
Its not I distrust the Govt, I'd bet most of our political ijits havent much of a clue about chemical & biological research facilities, I dont trust anybody with unchecked power & that is exactly what much of this research & those in charge of it represent. A man in the Whitehouse for 4 measly years cannot be trusted with such sensative information and those who are intrusted with it are sworn to secrecy, have a vested interest in maintaining it and have no civilian authority to answer to.
This stuff is so far beyond the limitations placed upon our govt it simply cannot be justified if one believes there are ANY limits upon the Fed Govts power at all.
Thanks for the link JV, not big surprises, I came in a Libertarian. I think had a couple questions had other options I might have scored slightly different but I'm fine with libertarian for the most part.
As far as Lybia, they havent attacked us, Lockerbie was in Scotland, & West Germany is in Germany.
Granted our citizens were effected but when has anybody come running to punish an agressor who killed their people here. 9/11 is a great example, a handfull of SAUDIS attacked us, very few were willing to help at all & nobody took it out on the Saudis.
More on topic I find it very ironic that we act holier than thou regarding "terrorist states" when for the most part their attacks are in response to decades of unwanted western & US intervention & influences. Not to mention that we deny them the ability to develop the same weapons we have perfected & are still working on. NOBODY has ever used nukes except us, not saying its right or wrong, I think it was justified, but how do you justify denying keeping them away from others who have never remotely aproached the lever of carnage we wraught on an Island nation already on the verge of collapse?
IF our govt thought its ongoing research & development into these things was justifyable there would be no need for coverups, secrecy to a degree yes but outright denial & cover ups no.
Its not a conspiracy fruitcake that realizes the obvious intent & consequences of whats going on, its a rational objective thinking person.
On another note, having something like this in LI Sound is nothing short of stupid if concern for our people is a priority. LI sound is not the Nevada desert or the mid Pacific. Its a hands breadth from many millions of people, the only reason I can imagine for choosing such a site brings to mind all sorts of unimaginable scenerios. It is not a place they would choose if secrecy & confidentiality were their number one goal. That much is certain. It IS a great place to slip things into the population without detection or commit any number of other acts that we cannot concieve of our govt doing.
Its not I distrust the Govt, I'd bet most of our political ijits havent much of a clue about chemical & biological research facilities, I dont trust anybody with unchecked power & that is exactly what much of this research & those in charge of it represent. A man in the Whitehouse for 4 measly years cannot be trusted with such sensative information and those who are intrusted with it are sworn to secrecy, have a vested interest in maintaining it and have no civilian authority to answer to.
This stuff is so far beyond the limitations placed upon our govt it simply cannot be justified if one believes there are ANY limits upon the Fed Govts power at all.
Scary stuff. I wish humanity would just learn to leave other people alone to live as they wish. What's scary about these technologies today is the speed at which they can travel around the globe. At least in the past (pre-nuclear) things were not able to get around so quickly. But now, the power and speed at which they can be used is frightening. Sometimes I think to myself, is someone trying to destroy us? What else could be the answer. Henry Kissinger did call the majority of Earth's population parasitic eating machines, or something like this.
Exactly, and Tinknocker furthered a point below that I don't think a lot of people think about. The ship is not run by elected officials for the most part...it's run by those who have no accountability to the American citizens, and that's not only very removed from what we are supposed to be, it's a bit frightening.
Quote:
Originally Posted by hat456
Another interesting video about how Freud's cousin used his knowledge of human behavior to create trouble in a banana republic because they wanted to throw out an associates food company! Edward Bernays.
For people who don't think this kind of manipulation goes on:
Oh, man don't get me started on Edward Bernays...great point again that many folks don't realize. Ever wonder where "bacon and eggs for breakfast" came from, or why all of a sudden women started smoking? Yea, that dude. Very manipulative.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tin Knocker
Thanks for the link JV, not big surprises, I came in a Libertarian. I think had a couple questions had other options I might have scored slightly different but I'm fine with libertarian for the most part.
As far as Lybia, they havent attacked us, Lockerbie was in Scotland, & West Germany is in Germany.
Granted our citizens were effected but when has anybody come running to punish an agressor who killed their people here. 9/11 is a great example, a handfull of SAUDIS attacked us, very few were willing to help at all & nobody took it out on the Saudis.
More on topic I find it very ironic that we act holier than thou regarding "terrorist states" when for the most part their attacks are in response to decades of unwanted western & US intervention & influences. Not to mention that we deny them the ability to develop the same weapons we have perfected & are still working on. NOBODY has ever used nukes except us, not saying its right or wrong, I think it was justified, but how do you justify denying keeping them away from others who have never remotely aproached the lever of carnage we wraught on an Island nation already on the verge of collapse?
IF our govt thought its ongoing research & development into these things was justifyable there would be no need for coverups, secrecy to a degree yes but outright denial & cover ups no.
Its not a conspiracy fruitcake that realizes the obvious intent & consequences of whats going on, its a rational objective thinking person.
On another note, having something like this in LI Sound is nothing short of stupid if concern for our people is a priority. LI sound is not the Nevada desert or the mid Pacific. Its a hands breadth from many millions of people, the only reason I can imagine for choosing such a site brings to mind all sorts of unimaginable scenerios. It is not a place they would choose if secrecy & confidentiality were their number one goal. That much is certain. It IS a great place to slip things into the population without detection or commit any number of other acts that we cannot concieve of our govt doing.
Its not I distrust the Govt, I'd bet most of our political ijits havent much of a clue about chemical & biological research facilities, I dont trust anybody with unchecked power & that is exactly what much of this research & those in charge of it represent. A man in the Whitehouse for 4 measly years cannot be trusted with such sensative information and those who are intrusted with it are sworn to secrecy, have a vested interest in maintaining it and have no civilian authority to answer to.
This stuff is so far beyond the limitations placed upon our govt it simply cannot be justified if one believes there are ANY limits upon the Fed Govts power at all.
Stuff to think very hard on for sure.
Bingo, spot on IMO.
I read a report that said IF Plum Island was hit with a IED or grenade launcher or whatever that the potential to WIPE OUT the entire East Coast in 5 hours exists. They DO play with Anthrax among other vicous things there, and the island is so vunerable it's pathetic. The freakin ferry goes right by it...any wannabe terrorist can rent a Boston Whaler and lob a grenade in there. It's a joke.
That's pretty damned serious.
I've recently (as in the last 24 hours) stumbled up on some lyme research where a PhD in bio genetics's son was infected and wrecked which caused her to take this on hardcore. She seems to be presenting evidence that there are DNA markers that show this was a modified (created) disease.
I'm not done reading it but I'm starting to sway that way myself based on simple common sense. The way and rate this virus is spreading, there is no way in hell it's been with us for hundreds of years. It's pattern is very similar to AIDS, but much of the explanations given to why AIDS suddenly flared up doesn't fit with lyme. People don't get lyme through sex for example.
I'm also not convinced the lobster die off in LI Sound didn't have something to do with death island.
You want to read something eye opening? Check out this timeline which is filled with Plum Island information with a link to the full article below.
1950: A U.S. Navy ship equipped with spray devices supplied by Ft. Detrick, sprayed serratia marcescens across the San Francisco Bay Area while the ship plied Bay waters. Supposedly a non-pathogenic microorganism, twelve mostly elderly victims die.
* Early 1950s: Army biological weapons research begins at the Plum Island Animal Disease Center (PIADC). Vials of anthrax are transferred from Ft. Detrick to Plum Island. This information is contained in a now declassified report, "Biological Warfare Operations," Research and Development Annual Technical Progress Report, Department of the Army, 1951.
* 1951: Racist experiments are carried out. U.S. Army researchers deliberately expose African-Americans to the fungus Aspergillus fumigatus to discern whether they are more susceptible to infections caused by such organisms than white Europeans. Also in 1951, black workers at the Norfolk Supply Center in Virginia were exposed to crates contaminated with A. fumigatus spores.
* 1952: According to 1977 hearings by the Senate Select Committee on Intelligence and the Subcommittee on Health and Scientific Research into Project MKULTRA, we discover the following: "Under an agreement reached with the Army in 1952, the Special Operations Division (SOD) at Fort Detrick was to assist CIA in developing, testing, and maintaining biological agents and delivery systems. By this agreement, CIA acquired the knowledge, skill, and facilities of the Army to develop biological weapons suited for CIA use."
* 1953: Frank Olson, a chemist with the Army's top secret Special Operations Division at Ft. Detrick was involved with biological weapons research and was tasked to the CIA for work on MKULTRA. In 1953, as Deputy Acting Head of Special Operations for the CIA, Olson is a close associate of psychiatrist William Sargant who was investigating the use of psychoactive drugs as an interrogation tool at Britain's Biological Warfare Centre at Porton Down. After being dosed with LSD without his knowledge by Dr. Sidney Gottlieb, the Agency's liaison to Ft. Detrick, Olson undergoes a severe psychological crisis. The scientist begins questioning the ethics of designing biological organisms as weapons of war. This does not sit well with his Agency and Army superiors. On November 24, 1953, Olson and a CIA minder, Robert Lashbrook, check into New York's Staler Hotel. He never checked out. According to Lashbrook, Olson had thrown himself through the closed shade and window, plunging 170 feet to his death. But because of his knowledge of CIA "terminal experiments" and other horrors conducted under MKULTRA, the Olson family believes the researcher was murdered. When Olson's son Eric has his father's body exhumed in 1994, the forensic scientist in charge of the examination determines that Olson had suffered blunt force trauma to the head prior to his fall through the window; the evidence is called "rankly and starkly suggestive of homicide." Norman G. Cournoyer, one of Olson's closet friends at Ft. Detrick also believes the scientist was murdered. When asked by the Baltimore Sun in 2004 why Olson was killed, Cournoyer said, "To shut him up. ... He wasn't sure we should be in germ warfare, at the end."
* 1955: Following a CIA biowarfare test in Tampa Bay, Florida, the area experiences a sharp rise in cases of Whooping Cough, including 12 deaths. The Agency had released bacteria it had obtained from the U.S. Army's Chemical and Biological Warfare Center at the Dugway Proving Grounds.
* 1956-1958: More racist experiments. The U.S. Army conducted live field tests on poor African-American communities in Savannah, Georgia and Avon Park, Florida. Mosquitoes were released into neighborhoods at ground level by "researchers" or by helicopter; residents were swarmed by the pest; many developed unknown illnesses and some even died. After the tests, Army personnel posing as health workers photographed and tested the victims, then disappeared. While specific details of the experiments remain classified, it has been theorized that a strain of Yellow Fever was used to test its efficacy as a bioweapon.
* 1962: A declassified CIA document obtained by the National Security Archive relates the following: "In November 1962 Mr. [redacted] advised Mr. Lyman Kirkpatrick that he had, at one time, been directed by Mr. Richard Bissell to assume responsibility for a project involving the assassination of Patrice Lumumba, then Premier, Republic of Congo. According to Mr. [redacted] poison was to have been the vehicle as he made reference to having been instructed to see Dr. Sidney Gottlieb in order to procure the appropriate vehicle." Gottlieb was the chief scientific adviser for the CIA's MKULTRA program.
* June 1966: The U.S. Army's Special Operations Division dispenses Bacillus subtilis var niger throughout the New York City subway system. More than a million people were exposed when Army operatives dropped light bulbs filled with the bacteria onto ventilation grates.
* December, 1967: The New York Times reports, "Fatal Virus Found in Wild Ducks on L.I." A virus never seen before in the Western hemisphere, began with ducks in Long Island at a site opposite Plum Island; the virus devastates the area's duck industry and by 1975 has spread across the entire continent.
* 1971: The U.S. Department of Agriculture proclaims that "Plum Island is considered the safest in the world on virus diseases." USDA's proof? "There has never been a disease outbreak among the susceptible animals maintained outside the laboratory since it was established."
* 1975: PIADC begins feeding live viruses to "hard ticks," including the Lone Star tick (never seen outside Texas prior to 1975). The Lone Star tick is a carrier of the Borelia burgdorferi (Bb) bacteria, the causal agent of Lyme Disease. The first cases of the illness are reported in Connecticut, directly across from the facility. Current epidemiological data conclusively demonstrate that the epicenter of all U.S. Lyme Disease cases is Plum Island. It is theorized that deer bitten by infected ticks swam across the narrow waterway separating the island from the mainland.
* September 1978: A PIADC news release relays the following: "Foot and Mouth Disease has been diagnosed in cattle in a pre-experimental animal holding facility at the Plum Island Animal Disease Center." A documented outbreak has occurred.
* 1979: An internal investigation of the FMD incident reveals massive, widespread failures in the containment systems at PIADC. A USDA Committee report recommends that "Lab 101 not be considered as a safe facility in which to do work on exotic disease agents until corrective action is accomplished."
* 1979: Despite containment failures and poor practices, USAMRIID undertakes the investigation of the deadly Zagazig 501 strain of Rift Valley Fever at PIADC. Producing symptoms similar to aerosolized hemorrhagic fevers such as Marburg and Ebola virus, the Army inoculates sheep that should have been destroyed as a result of the FMD outbreak with an experimental Rift Valley Fever vaccine. The experiments are conducted outdoors, in violation of the lab's primary directive prohibiting such work. During a 1977 Rift Valley outbreak in Egypt, some 200,000 people are infected and 700 others die excruciating deaths. A survey of blood serum taken before 1977 proved that the virus was not present in Egypt prior to the epidemic. By 2000, rampant outbreaks of the disease have occurred in Saudi Arabia and Yemen with the virus poised to unfurl its tentacles into Europe.
* 1982: A Federal review begun after the FMD outbreak concludes: "We believe there is a potentially dangerous situation and that without an immediate massive effort to correct deficiencies, a severe accident could result... [L]ack of preventive maintenance, [and] pressures by management to expedite programs have resulted in compromising safety."
* 1983: Six PIADC workers test positive for African Swine Fever virus. The workers are not notified of the test results which are conducted clandestinely during routine annual physical exams.
* 1991: USDA privatizes PIADC. A New Jersey firm, Burns & Roe Services Corporation low bids other competitors and is awarded the contract. In cost-cutting moves, the contractor scales back on safety and security measures in place for decades.
* June 1991: An underground cable supplying Lab 257 shorts out but is not replaced since there is no money left in the budget.
* August 1991: Hurricane Bob, a category 3 storm similar to Hurricane Katrina, slams into Plum Island, knocking down overhead power lines that connect Lab 257. The underground cable which was Lab 257's primary power source has not been repaired. Freezers containing virus samples defrost, air seals on lab doors are breached and animal holding room vents fail. PIADC's "fail safe" mechanism of "air dampers" to seal off the facility also fail. Melted virus samples mix with infected animal waste on lab floors as swarms of mosquitoes fill the facility.
* September 1991: The USDA denies that any system failures occurred during the hurricane. Whistleblowing workers in Lab 257 at the time of the blackout are fired in further cost-cutting moves and several subsequently develop mysterious undiagnosed diseases.
* 1992: The Occupational Safety and Health Administration (OSHA) and the Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) cite PIADC with hundreds of safety violations. When OSHA returned five years later, none of the violations have been corrected and discover 124 new violations.
* July 1992: Although USDA officially denies that PIADC conducts biological warfare research, fourteen officials from the Joint Chiefs of Staff and the Pentagon visit Plum Island. Internal documents reveal that that the visit was "to meet with [Plum Island] staff regarding biological warfare." According to Carroll, "the visitors were part of the Arms Control and Disarmament Agency reviewing the dual-use capabilities of the facility."
* Spring 1995: Lab 257 is closed. Although scheduled to be fully decontaminated and demolished in 1996 Carroll reports: "Lab 257 still stands today, rotting from weathered decay, harboring who knows what deep within."
* August 1999: The first four human cases of West Vile virus, a mosquito-borne pathogen never diagnosed in North America are diagnosed on Long Island. Horse farms within a five-mile radius of one another, directly opposite Plum Island, report horses dying following violent seizures. An investigation reveals that 25% of the horses in this small, localized area test positive for West Nile. The outbreak begins in August 1999 when birds, including half the exotic bird species in the Bronx Zoo begin dying mysteriously. The virus has an affinity for birds and the vector is soon identified as the mosquito. In 1999, the disease was confined to the New York City area, however by 2002, the Centers for Disease Control reports all but 6 of the lower 48 states reported West Nile virus in birds, mosquitos, animals or human populations. CDC estimates that some 200,000 people are infected nationally. During the initial outbreak in 1999, veterinary pathologist Tracey McNamara suspected a casual relationship between the bird die-offs and the human cases; CDC rebuffs her concerns. Through her persistent efforts, it is determined that the virus was indeed West Nile, a pathogen that had never been seen in North America. The CDC announces that West Nile virus was in the nation's blood supply when transplant patients who had no prior exposure to the pathogen develop the disease. The USDA's response? Deny, deny, deny? However, Jim House, a former PIADC scientist, believes that West Nile samples existed prior to 1999 on Plum Island. He told Carroll, "There were samples there, and it wasn't answered clearly to the public. They didn't honestly tell how many samples they had and that's when people started to get upset. When Carroll filed a Freedom of Information Act request for a catalog of germs held in the Plum Island virus library, he was turned down on grounds of "national security."
* September 1999: The New York Times reports that due to "the growing threat of biological terrorism" against America's food supply, USDA "is seeking money to turn the Plum Island Animal Disease Center ... into a top security laboratory where some of the most dangerous diseases known to man or beast can be studied."
* 1999: A Cold War-era document is declassified proving that in the early 1950s USAMRIID shipped twelve vials of weaponized anthrax (enough to kill one million people) to PIADC. In 1993 Newsday revealed that previously unclassified documents demonstrated Pentagon plans to disrupt the Soviet economy by spreading diseases to kill pigs, cattle and horses.
* 1999: Plans to "upgrade" PIADC by building a BSL-4 lab are killed when Congress pulls funding after a public outcry.
* September 2001: After the anthrax attacks, despite USDA denials that anthrax was ever present on the island, FBI investigators include the following questions in their polygraph examination of scientists under investigation: "Have you ever been to Plum Island?" "Do you know anyone who works at Plum Island?" "What do they do there?"
* December 2002: The New York Times reports "a three-hour power failure at the Plum Island Animal Disease Center last weekend renewed concerns about the safety of the high-security government laboratory." According to the Times, "the loss of power and failure of all three backup generators raised fears for the first time that the containment of infectious pathogens could have been seriously compromised at the laboratory."
* June 2003: President George W. Bush transfers control of PIADC to the Department of Homeland Security. The airspace over the island is unrestricted and the gates leading to Lab 101 remain open and unguarded.
* May 2004: In a sign that work on Plum Island is being shifted to "other sites," including those run by private contractors, DHS announces an $18 million grant to study Rift Valley fever, avian influenza and brucellosis.
* August 2004: DHS confirmed that an FMD outbreak "had spread briefly" in "two previously undisclosed incidents earlier this summer," The New York Times reports. A DHS spokesperson said the virus remained "within the laboratory's sealed biocontainment area" and that there "had be no risk" to human or animals. An investigation into the cause "was continuing."
* 2004: At the Medical University of Ohio, a researcher is infected with Valley Fever at the center's BSL-3 facility; Valley Fever is a biological weapons agent.
* February 2005: University of Iowa researchers conduct unauthorized genetic engineering experiments with the select agent Tularemia (rabbit fever). The Sunshine Project reports that researchers mixed genes from Tularemia species and introduced antibiotic resistant characteristics into the samples.
* March 2005: When a containment facility fails, workers at the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill are exposed to tuberculosis when the BSL-3 "fail-safe" systems malfunction; a blower pushes contaminated air out of the work cabinet, infecting the workroom. The facility had been inspected one month prior to the accident by U.S. Army.
* Summer 2005: At the same Ohio facility a serious accident occurs when workers are infected with an aerosol of Valley Fever.
* October-November 2005: Dozens of samples thought to be harmless are received by the University of California at Berkeley. In fact, they are samples of Rocky Mountain Spotted Fever, a BSL-3 bioweapons agent due to its transmission as an aerosol. The samples are handled without adequate safety precautions; however, the community is never notified of the incident.
* August 2005: The whistleblowing watchdog group Tri-Valley Cares obtains documents in May 2009 proving that the Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory had conducted "restricted experiments" with "select biological agents" at the facility. In 2005, LLNL "inadvertently" released anthrax at the lab in another incident that lab officials attempted to cover-up; five individuals were infected with the deadly pathogen.
* April 2006: Three Texas A&M "biodefense" researchers are infected with Q Fever, a biological weapons agent. Rather than reporting the incident to the CDC as required by law, Texas A&M officials cover-up the accident.
* August 2006: DHS announces that PIADC is "not on the rebuilding list" and a new site to study infectious diseases is being considered.
* January 2009: DHS announces that the new National Bio and Agro-Defense Facility will be built in Manhattan, Kansas.
Granted our citizens were effected but when has anybody come running to punish an agressor who killed their people here. 9/11 is a great example, a handfull of SAUDIS attacked us, very few were willing to help at all & nobody took it out on the Saudis.
Perhaps because the Saudis who did that were enemies of the Saudi govt?
On another note, having something like this in LI Sound is nothing short of stupid if concern for our people is a priority. LI sound is not the Nevada desert or the mid Pacific. Its a hands breadth from many millions of people, the only reason I can imagine for choosing such a site brings to mind all sorts of unimaginable scenerios. It is not a place they would choose if secrecy & confidentiality were their number one goal. That much is certain. .
perhaps its convenience to major universities has something to do with it? And perhaps its not so dangerous it needs to be in the Nevada desert?
On another note, having something like this in LI Sound is nothing short of stupid if concern for our people is a priority. LI sound is not the Nevada desert or the mid Pacific. Its a hands breadth from many millions of people, the only reason I can imagine for choosing such a site brings to mind all sorts of unimaginable scenerios. It is not a place they would choose if secrecy & confidentiality were their number one goal. .
Oddly, the most secret US military plans, etc are foud in the Pentagon, in highly populated Arlington Virginia. The CIA, where all these eevil plots are presumably created, is in McLean Virginia, right by the capital Beltway.
Why do you think isolation is necessary for secrecy?
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