[bobtn]

7wishes, No regulation..come on..stop with the hyperbole, ok?

Maybe in China perhaps, but you act like becoming a better business climate means becoming Pakistan.

This morning, Squawk Box had Scott Walker on..20,000 new jobs under him so far. Malloy came in at a slight loss for the same quarter. The difference is WI now has a business-friendly environment, and Kohler & H & D last year both accepted two tier contracts. Had they not, each would have left. Bridgeport comes to mind when I write that, and we saw the results. Carpenter employees held firm, and we saw the empty building for decades on end that resulted with a decline of many tens of millions of payroll dollars.

So again, no need for hyperbole..it distracts from the real issues. Job creation is not about some funky CT unionite touting nonsensical new age jobs..it's about blocking and tackling to use a football analogy.the basics of good economical places to invest tens or hundreds of millions or more..long-term.

[ctwhitechin]

Originally Posted by joe143

I completly agree with this. I'm going into my senior year this fall and the reason I don't find CT appealing is the lack of a real city experience. While CT cities do have nice parts none of them are cities I would consider living in. However, CT does have some beautiful suburbs and rural areas that are great places to raise a family.

I think what it really comes down to is most young adults/professionals are looking for an exciting, walkable city and CT just does not have one.

And there lies another problem, am I safe to say more than not when college graduates emerge they are looking for a place to live with more "aesthetic" appeal than CT can offer? Maybe a longer summer season perhaps (this winter was especially brutal), I do agree this is not the most friendly "young person" state...I live outside of Hartford, we go to Hartford to eat sometimes and that's about it, it's not really a vibrant "outdoorsy" city as much as Austin, San antonio, Savannah, etc etc. I went to college in Florida, graduated 1993, part of me wishes I stayed there. But then I wouldn't have met my wife, etc etc.
Then when the graduate realizes it's not what they're looking for in terms of "quality of life", then on top of that they go to rent in a decent neighborhood or if they're lucky in a couple years purchase a home and look at the real estate taxes, rents, etc etc and look at what it costs elsewhere to buy.....they leave?

Am I way off base here, o/k lets say you graduate college, and have a significant other, also college educated, both of you together make oh I don't know $90,000.00 working in CT.
I don't know what you both would make in TX, or NC or VA or DE for the similar job, but it can't be that much less, but your cost of living would be substantially less, enabling you to start a family earlier, save more for retirement, get a nicer car, home, etc etc.

Look, as I mentioned before, we moved here from NY in 2004. I like our quality of life here, I am not a fan of getting taxed to death as it appears we are going to be. If we can get out we will, but other things come into play, selling my home, etc etc.

[bobtn]

When mom and dad stop paying their room and board, the kids leave , first and foremost, for C-O-S-T of living, job stability reasons. Until they are truly paying their own subsistence needs, it may well be for bigger cities.

When one writes their own checks for the basics, life changes from being a "big kid" to being a real grownup.

[joe143]

Originally Posted by ctwhitechin

And there lies another problem, am I safe to say more than not when college graduates emerge they are looking for a place to live with more "aesthetic" appeal than CT can offer? Maybe a longer summer season perhaps (this winter was especially brutal), I do agree this is not the most friendly "young person" state...I live outside of Hartford, we go to Hartford to eat sometimes and that's about it, it's not really a vibrant "outdoorsy" city as much as Austin, San antonio, Savannah, etc etc. I went to college in Florida, graduated 1993, part of me wishes I stayed there. But then I wouldn't have met my wife, etc etc.
Then when the graduate realizes it's not what they're looking for in terms of "quality of life", then on top of that they go to rent in a decent neighborhood or if they're lucky in a couple years purchase a home and look at the real estate taxes, rents, etc etc and look at what it costs elsewhere to buy.....they leave?

Am I way off base here, o/k lets say you graduate college, and have a significant other, also college educated, both of you together make oh I don't know $90,000.00 working in CT.
I don't know what you both would make in TX, or NC or VA or DE for the similar job, but it can't be that much less, but your cost of living would be substantially less, enabling you to start a family earlier, save more for retirement, get a nicer car, home, etc etc.

Look, as I mentioned before, we moved here from NY in 2004. I like our quality of life here, I am not a fan of getting taxed to death as it appears we are going to be. If we can get out we will, but other things come into play, selling my home, etc etc.

I think your spot on. While a vibrant city is important to me, the weather is equally if not more important. I find myself enjoying the winters less and less, and find no real escape in the winter besides: A) trip to NYC, B) trip to Boston, C) trip up north to snowboard. CT does have plenty of activities when its nice out, but the winters are dull. I find myself loving CT from early summer untill mid fall when I can camp, hike,fish, etc etc. The rest of the year, I'm not a big fan. The quality of life can be very good in CT if you have the money, but is it worth it?

The discussions I've had with my friends/young professionals about this topic seems to boil down to a few things:
1) Its expensive to live here, even more so to own a home.
2.) The winters are long, about half the year is cold here.
3.) Many people my age feel that if you want the city experience, you are not getting it in CT.

[ctwhitechin]

I think I can sum this one up fairly simply.

New grad gets out of college, from CT went to UCONN, has no or little reservations about moving away from CT.

Gets two offers, one making $50,000 in CT, one making $43,000 in VA

Does not want to move back in w/parents

puts pen to paper, sees what cost of living is here vs there, moves to VA.

[Beeker2211]

Originally Posted by HeadedWest

So how would I go about looking up information that supports your assertion?

Most of the info is available, but it did take me a while. however most of the data I have already posted if you want to cheat sheet it.

Originally Posted by HeadedWest

I don't like the economy much anywhere, so I have no pedestals. But I am pretty certain CT is not competitive at this point in time.

Depends on the industry and situation of the business. At a smaller scale CT is very competitive, though. My issue is that the more "pro-business" states have worse results for business and not great conditions for workers by and large. It's a huge PR campaign that lacks substance, especially now.

Originally Posted by HeadedWest

My profession is one where job openings may exist all over the country. Comparable positions do pay more in a place like CT but -- not enough more to fully cover the higher cost of living. So in my experience, you can generally do better financially if you work in a lower cost location.

Oh yeah definitely. Everyone's situation is different and some people's wages elsewhere would be comparable and COL certainly lower. But you have something much more marketable to your situation: experience in your field. Someone just starting out? Doesn't seem likely they'd have the same benefit per se. This has been the worst job market for recent grads nationally in almost 80 years.

Originally Posted by bobtn

Beeker, Relative to COL, our average pay (nashville metro, and especially for the educated) is superb. You are aware COL ratio is about 70% US average, US is 80% US avg. Are you aware Nashville metro was named Relocation City of Nation 2x in 10 years, top 5 2 other years. No other city received that many top 5s. The world has changed, and as Forbes correctly showed their is a northern brain drain, with a Southern gain. EVERY top 10 city is not either north or on a coast, execpt San Diego.

That list was in rise of percentages from a baseline, in raw numbers the lists are different.

Originally Posted by bobtn

Our ex gov relocated 31 corps to the tune of 150k direct jobs created inside a ten year span. Try matching 10% of that. The Ct Economic Development Team would say "No Mas". They can't even keep UBS, let alone gain stuff. This includes Nissan North American hq, with a median salary of 140k. My employers facilities also have a median well in excess of US median, despite far lower cost, and our headcount across the RTW states is very high. As for job security, I last spent a day without a ever higher paying job with larger bonuses and benefits in Ct. That was in the 90s. Here, my biggest problem is headhunters calling too often, and I have no desire to move on.

But what about the over 10% unemployment in TN? You think I'm sort of rube? Never met someone that grew up outside CT? I know a couple of people from TN and they told me if you were raised there things don't look so fantastic. Perhaps not awful, but not great.

Originally Posted by bobtn

But again, its not just Nashville. Its the South gaining, the north losing, and every census equals more Southern, RTW electoral votes. 7 gained this time alone.

A lot of that is immigration, not so much intrastate migration. And the real scary drain to the South is coming from MI and OH, something we really have to address nationally.

Originally Posted by bobtn

Job Security is non-existent in the private sector in Ct. UBS is down 1,000 since its peak.All the insurers cut heads; UTC has cut heads.

I don't know how to put this simply but for UTC the demand for their aerospace components worldwide plummeted. They downsized a huge portion of one of their most productive shops in ON because of this. UBS got involved in awfully risky securities and took in massive losses or are holding onto unsellable paper. As well, apparently, they were not great managers which helped cripple productivity more than the economic downturn would have likely done. How is that the state's fault?

So you'd say so long as things were cheap enough people would stay employed even if no one bought the stuff being produced? Madness.

[Beeker2211]

Also a few people mentioned the cities, and I agree on that one to a point. I get the feeling most people in the suburbs write of the cities wholesale, whereas in most of them only a few areas should be avoided. Once people actually explore the fun neighbourhoods, attitudes change: "holy jeez I can get this delicious obscure ethnic meal for $5??!!" As of now, there's no reason for the suburban folk to venture in really, and I can't say I blame them too heavily.

An issue for Bridgeport and New Haven (probably Hartford too but I'm not familiar with it as much) is that urban renewal mad the areas much more car friendly than people friendly.

As I said in another post, I think the state should really work to get a few more private (or even state) non profit colleges and universities to help form a critical mass that might make these places more attractive. And a campaign to honestly help showcase what the cities have to offer might not be a bad idea either.

~Cheers

[bobtn]

Beeker, the overall unemployment rate in Tn would be like talking the overall unemployment rate in Ct, RI, MA, VT, and NH. You guys are a very tiny state; we are more of US norm. Hence, the situation in Nashville metro (with over 1.5 mill residents) differs greatly from Memphis metro, or Knoxville metro. In states of such size, MTSA unemployment rates are all that matter. I cannot commute to Shelby County (Memphis), it would mean a relocation. I could commute from Milford to Stamford, or even New London. Hence the focus in big states are properly MTSAs. 31 relos--an awesome achievement. And none like the Westchester County-Stamford shuttle where no jobs are created-just reverse commutes. Those are "so whats".

I am glad Jane reminded me though of your union affialiation, so I do understand your incentive.

PS, UTC policy of ABC..what does that stand for, Beeker? They called it the most anti-business state in the nation. AETNA echoed those comments.

[Beeker2211]

Originally Posted by bobtn

Beeker, the overall unemployment rate in Tn would be like talking the overall unemployment rate in Ct, RI, MA, VT, and NH. You guys are a very tiny state; we are more of US norm. Hence, the situation in Nashville metro (with over 1.5 mill residents) differs greatly from Memphis metro, or Knoxville metro. In states of such size, MTSA unemployment rates are all that matter. I cannot commute to Shelby County (Memphis), it would mean a relocation. I could commute from Milford to Stamford, or even New London. Hence the focus in big states are properly MTSAs. 31 relos--an awesome achievement. And none like the Westchester County-Stamford shuttle where no jobs are created-just reverse commutes. Those are "so whats".

Sigh. You do know that Stamford-Norwalk-Bridgeport is considered its' own MSA with about 1.1m people, right? Unemployment in the Coastal metro: 8.3, Nashville: 8.8.

..::Edit::.. By the way I think by now you'd reckon I don't trust many huge employers, especially ones that move in for "lower cost." It's not something I want for this state, or any state really, because once the chips are down if they got a free ride in one location they'll mosey onto the next town that is desperate enough to have them. Like the Music Man. There's also significant proof that these relos aren't helping anything: not consumer prices, not long term job prospects, not even shareholder earnings, only CEO pay. There is a way around it, and its' creating a environment that start-ups have the resources to do what they do best. Not saying they are better ethically, per se, but the economic benefits are much greater than expecting someone to move in and save your town.

Originally Posted by bobtn

I am glad Jane reminded me though of your union affialiation, so I do understand your incentive.

I am pro-union. I am also anti-corruption. The worst thing for the labour movement in the US was the merger of the AFL-CIO in my mind. The union I'm a part of is a small union not affiliated with any larger organization, and most of our dues go to the snacks and drinks for our meetings, officers meager salaries for the work they do for us, and charity. I might join the IEBW for giggles, and if and when I join the teachers union I'll take my voting seriously.

Originally Posted by bobtn

PS, UTC policy of ABC..what does that stand for, Beeker? They called it the most anti-business state in the nation. AETNA echoed those comments.

Anywhere but CT. As in it's cheaper anywhere but here. There's a counterpoint: After those the bulk of his comments were ignored by the media, and apparently you, the same President of UTC has said time and again that the high cost doesn't make CT a bad place to do business. He actually said the opposite through the entire speech many many times. Also since that speech he has had glowing reviews publicly of Malloy, behind closed doors who knows. He was voicing concerns, as is his right, but you're taking him completely out of context. UTC up until recently was looking to expand in Bridgeport of all places, for their new Otis factory. I think though because of the economy they shelved the idea for a new factory anywhere until demand picks back up.

~Cheers

[7 Wishes]

Originally Posted by Beeker2211

Anywhere but CT. As in it's cheaper anywhere but here. There's a counterpoint: After those the bulk of his comments were ignored by the media, and apparently you, the same President of UTC has said time and again that the high cost doesn't make CT a bad place to do business. He actually said the opposite through the entire speech many many times. Also since that speech he has had glowing reviews publicly of Malloy, behind closed doors who knows. He was voicing concerns, as is his right, but you're taking him completely out of context. UTC up until recently was looking to expand in Bridgeport of all places, for their new Otis factory. I think though because of the economy they shelved the idea for a new factory anywhere until demand picks back up.

~Cheers

But truth be told regarding UTC I actually partially side with bob in that costs was a significant factor. During the whole UTC debacle there were points where with some more union concessions it may have been possible to keep more jobs in CT, and (since you yourself mention it), this is what happened in MI or OH.

It's all about balance. There's a point of "penny wise pound foolish" but there's also a point where expenses make you less competitive. I will use my minimum wage example and reverse the extreme I made earlier. I don't think the minimum wage should be $12/hour either (just an extreme example) because I think at that high a rate it would significantly cost jobs. Similarly, I think in MI and OH the unions got corrupt and pushed things too far in the other direction and it hurt them dearly.