[Kristin85]

Wow, there is so much discussion about what it "means to be homosexual" when the real issue is "what rights do bigots have in our state." I am friends with gay men and women (and a few bisexuals) and I know they were born that way. No ifs, ands, or buts about it; they just were and there shouldn't be any blame against them for being what they are. I find the Master's School to be repugnant and they do not represent the all-encompassing, all-loving views many Christians have, particularly in a state as liberal as Connecticut.

HOWEVER, I am going to side with JViello and say that the state should not get involved with this because the school is not state sponsored. It is private. Every parent of a child in that school has a right to say "I don't want my child attending a school run by a bunch of bigots" and they can each remove their child from the school. It can exist, in private, as a hateful place for hateful people. As much as people want to destroy all groups that are not accepting of others, you cannot. The law can not be used to do that. If laws were put into place that stopped the meeting of hateful minds, the KKK and NAMBLA would cease to exist. Obviously that hasn't happened. The best you can hope for in a situation like this is that school management is changed to accept homosexual children or many parents remove their children from the school in protest. Whether you like what the Master's School did or not (and I do not at ALL) they have the right to limit membership as a private school. Hatred will always persist in a democracy and without changing the system the best you can do is not support bigoted organizations.

[JayCT]

I am merging this thread with the other. Please be certain that there is no other thread on the subject when you start a new thread. JayCT, Moderator

[Kristin85]

Originally Posted by nep321

In general, religion is not important to the average New Englander. That doesn't mean they don't believe in God or other mythological beings, however.

Kind of OT, but I agree that at least in Fairfield County spirituality and belief in God is significantly more important to people than having a religion and going to church. I can count on one hand the number of families I know who attend church on a weekly basis. However, practically everyone I know does believe in God, miracles, divine intervention, or some combination of the 3. You just don't need religion to be "religious."

[mlassoff]

Originally Posted by Kristin85

Wow, there is so much discussion about what it "means to be homosexual" when the real issue is "what rights do bigots have in our state." I am friends with gay men and women (and a few bisexuals) and I know they were born that way. No ifs, ands, or buts about it; they just were and there shouldn't be any blame against them for being what they are. I find the Master's School to be repugnant and they do not represent the all-encompassing, all-loving views many Christians have, particularly in a state as liberal as Connecticut.

HOWEVER, I am going to side with JViello and say that the state should not get involved with this because the school is not state sponsored. It is private. Every parent of a child in that school has a right to say "I don't want my child attending a school run by a bunch of bigots" and they can each remove their child from the school. It can exist, in private, as a hateful place for hateful people. As much as people want to destroy all groups that are not accepting of others, you cannot. The law can not be used to do that. If laws were put into place that stopped the meeting of hateful minds, the KKK and NAMBLA would cease to exist. Obviously that hasn't happened. The best you can hope for in a situation like this is that school management is changed to accept homosexual children or many parents remove their children from the school in protest. Whether you like what the Master's School did or not (and I do not at ALL) they have the right to limit membership as a private school. Hatred will always persist in a democracy and without changing the system the best you can do is not support bigoted organizations.

I can understand you reasoning, while disagreeing. I can't help but wondering, would your argument be the same if the school here excluding Blacks or Hispanics?

[JViello]

Originally Posted by mlassoff

I can understand you reasoning, while disagreeing. I can't help but wondering, would your argument be the same if the school here excluding Blacks or Hispanics?

Didn't we just have this conversation?

[mlassoff]

Originally Posted by JViello

Didn't we just have this conversation?

Yep, and you claim that gay is intrinsically different... that its ok to discriminate against gays in manners in which it's not permissible to discriminate against racial minorities.

I was wondering if Kristin felt the same way?

Did you really want to do this again?

[JViello]

Originally Posted by mlassoff

Yep, and you claim that gay is intrinsically different... that its ok to discriminate against gays in manners in which it's not permissible to discriminate against racial minorities.

I was wondering if Kristin felt the same way?

Did you really want to do this again?

Jeez, lighten up Mark, I was just playing. Hard day?

No, I'm not interested in beating a dead horse, but to put the civil rights movement on an equal plain is comparing apples to oranges.

Example: I can see a black guy walking down the street, and know he's black and deny him access to my restaurant. I can't see a gay guy walking down the street and deny him access to my restaurant.

There is no checkbox on forms that says "gay" next to Hispanic and Black.

I can't deny you housing because I have no idea what your sexual life consists of.

Etc etc. It's a different argument.

[mlassoff]

Originally Posted by JViello

Jeez, lighten up Mark, I was just playing. Hard day?

No, I'm not interested in beating a dead horse, but to put the civil rights movement on an equal plain is comparing apples to oranges.

Example: I can see a black guy walking down the street, and know he's black and deny him access to my restaurant. I can't see a gay guy walking down the street and deny him access to my restaurant.

There is no checkbox on forms that says "gay" next to Hispanic and Black.

I can't deny you housing because I have no idea what your sexual life consists of.

Etc etc. It's a different argument.

Right, but if I show up with my partner, you do want the right to deny me housing, not hire me and exclude me from other public accommodations... Right? You are arguing that I have to hide what is an essential part of my being-- You are arguing that I should have to hide the person who will soon become my spouse....

You are arguing for the right to discriminate against me. Legal, illegal, whatever, that's what you want.

So at the risk of boring you, or beating a dead horse, your rights end at my front lawn, and no, I will never accept your position, no matter how politely stated, nor will I "lighten up" until your position is accepted as bigotry and is no longer codified in to law.

[JViello]

Originally Posted by mlassoff

Right, but if I show up with my partner, you do want the right to deny me housing, not hire me and exclude me from other public accommodations... Right? You are arguing that I have to hide what is an essential part of my being-- You are arguing that I should have to hide the person who will soon become my spouse....

You are arguing for the right to discriminate against me. Legal, illegal, whatever, that's what you want.

So at the risk of boring you, or beating a dead horse, your rights end at my front lawn, and no, I will never accept your position, no matter how politely stated, nor will I "lighten up" until your position is accepted as bigotry and is no longer codified in to law.

Well Mark if you want to go out for blood and be militant, two can play at that game. I tried to be civil, but you are having non of it, so when pushed I'll push back too.

Tell you what. When you can come up with hard scientific proof that you are what you are the same way a black person can prove their DNA, I'll accept your position. And even if that happens, homosexuality will then be an aberration of nature and natures law. (And please no link to territorial monkey sodomy as proof it's normal in humans.) People are born blind, I'm not going to give them a drivers license.

Until that time comes, if at all, you are NOT on the same playing field as someone experiencing racial inequality. Sorry. I personally don't give a flip what you do in your life, but when you and your movement try and force legislation on me and my family to accept what is painstakingly against the basic law of nature you'll hit nothing but a brick wall.

You want to live your life in peace and free? Stop trying to force others to accept your viewpoint in public policy.

Good night.

P.S. You are welcome on my front lawn any day.

[mlassoff]

Originally Posted by JViello

You want to live your life in peace and free? Stop trying to force others to accept your viewpoint in public policy.

I don't want to force you to accept my viewpoint. I want the same rights you enjoy. Period.

The real difference is you want to legally oppress and discriminate against a group you don't belong to.

I seek to take nothing from you. You already have the very rights and protections I seek. I just don't understand why you so vehemently oppose my equality when it costs you nothing to support it.