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I'm going to go ahead and file this under "Adrian's Landing".
I remember being a 20 something who just moved back here from Charlotte when this was rolled out and being so excited for my home state...13 years later and we got...yep.
The Connecticut Convention Center and the Science Museum are very successful and they were part of Adrain's Landing. The rest of the project was killed by the economy not for it being a bad idea. Jay
The Connecticut Convention Center and the Science Museum are very successful and they were part of Adrain's Landing. The rest of the project was killed by the economy not for it being a bad idea. Jay
Jay...hold on. You really think the economy was bad from 1998 till now and that made Adriaen's landing the joke that it became? It wasn't the economy, it was lack of leadership, and the city government getting in the way more than not.
The two projects you site are there because they were tax payer funded, and went ahead no matter what. Same for the Uconn stadium...oh wait, that was supposed to be part of the landing too originally.
The fact that ESPN is headquarted in greater Hartford, has multiple venues in other cities and we can't get them to build a flipping End Zone at minimum is PA-THE-TIC.
The housing, retail, entertainment etc all bombed out. You would think they would have learned from Constitution Plaza (Which was also supposed to have housing, retail, entertainment but turned into an empty corporate plaza as well.)
Wouldn't Adrian's Landing have been more successful if the Patriots really did move here? We got played and the project got played. The convention center has helped keep the area somewhat relevant. The Science center is something to do but definitely not a destination. Front Street is just a bunch of buildings looking for a purpose.
I think the city does need a venue like the XL center. It's about time for a major renovation so it's nice to see a plan and seems to be a bargain for what it's offering although I do feel the final price ends up more by about 50 million. Still a deal compared to building a new stadium.
I could see a few more NHL teams retreating from the South. It's just not working out there. Phoenix being one of them, maybe Dallas as they have ownership issues. I could see Hartford being one of the cities considered in the next 10 years but we'll need the infrastructure to get that chance.
Jay...hold on. You really think the economy was bad from 1998 till now and that made Adriaen's landing the joke that it became? It wasn't the economy, it was lack of leadership, and the city government getting in the way more than not.
The two projects you site are there because they were tax payer funded, and went ahead no matter what. Same for the Uconn stadium...oh wait, that was supposed to be part of the landing too originally.
The fact that ESPN is headquarted in greater Hartford, has multiple venues in other cities and we can't get them to build a flipping End Zone at minimum is PA-THE-TIC.
The housing, retail, entertainment etc all bombed out. You would think they would have learned from Constitution Plaza (Which was also supposed to have housing, retail, entertainment but turned into an empty corporate plaza as well.)
The planning for Adrian's Landing began in 1998 and 13 years later we have two major facilities that are drawing thousands of people to Hartford that would never have come here if they were not built. I would not call that a joke. That was the purpose of the develpment and it succeeded. You also forget there is a major hotel at Adrian's Landing now and that is not a joke either.
The retail and housing portion of the project which is the final phase was delayed by the politics of the Perez administration (so much was lost in Hartford during this jerks years in office). They switched developers to one that has little or no experience in development and after years of delays and the project finally revised, the economy tanked. The recession and banking crisis dried up money for EVERYTHING. They did manage to pull enough together for the retail portion but retailers are not opening new stores right now (again lack of money to it) particularly in an unproven market like downtown Hartford. I truly believe if Perez kept the original developer you would have seen the original project with retail and housing in place.
The other thing I get really mad about is when people call Constitution Plaza a failure. It is not. It kept hundreds of companies in Hartford with thousands of employees. It is still home to many businesses, most of which are doing well. Without that complex most of those companies would have headed to the suburbs. Mayvbe the plaza is not as stylish as it once was but that is true of every building as it ages. For the first 20 to 30 years or so it is thought well of and then something new comes along to make it seem old. For the next 40 or so years it is looked down on as old and out of style. Notice this is about the age when most buildings are torn down and replaced. After that people get nostolgic and think the building has charm and if it lucky it will be reborn. That is the cycle of buildings and has been that way for centuries. Jay
The planning for Adrian's Landing began in 1998 and 13 years later we have two major facilities that are drawing thousands of people to Hartford that would never have come here if they were not built. I would not call that a joke. That was the purpose of the develpment and it succeeded. You also forget there is a major hotel at Adrian's Landing now and that is not a joke either.
The retail and housing portion of the project which is the final phase was delayed by the politics of the Perez administration (so much was lost in Hartford during this jerks years in office). They switched developers to one that has little or no experience in development and after years of delays and the project finally revised, the economy tanked. The recession and banking crisis dried up money for EVERYTHING. They did manage to pull enough together for the retail portion but retailers are not opening new stores right now (again lack of money to it) particularly in an unproven market like downtown Hartford. I truly believe if Perez kept the original developer you would have seen the original project with retail and housing in place.
Jay Jay Jay...you are proving my very point. 13 years later, and all that nonsense and noise, and the project is a shadow of Fiondella's vision with no completion in site of that watered down, not even close to original scale project. 13 years.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JayCT
The other thing I get really mad about is when people call Constitution Plaza a failure. It is not. It kept hundreds of companies in Hartford with thousands of employees. It is still home to many businesses, most of which are doing well. Without that complex most of those companies would have headed to the suburbs. Mayvbe the plaza is not as stylish as it once was but that is true of every building as it ages. For the first 20 to 30 years or so it is thought well of and then something new comes along to make it seem old. For the next 40 or so years it is looked down on as old and out of style. Notice this is about the age when most buildings are torn down and replaced. After that people get nostolgic and think the building has charm and if it lucky it will be reborn. That is the cycle of buildings and has been that way for centuries. Jay
Constitution Plaza was an abysmal failure. Lest you forget it was SUPPOSED to be an extension of Main Street when Main Street was CROWDED with people on the weekends. (Ever notice the plaza's elevation is the same as Main Street?) It was supposed to have retail, housing etc to compliment what the city was at the time. Instead they raised a great Italian ethnic neighborhood and put some an empty plaza and helped put a nail in the coffin that was main street.
Surely you know about the Bishop's of Hartford and how they just bulldozed their way to getting the Plaza built.
Even during the next building boom in Hartford, it just sat there rotting away owned by some freakin Harry Krishna group holed up in the hotel and letting it go into a decrepit condition.
Tell you what, lets compare the tale of two cities over the last 20 years to see what leadership and vision SHOULD look like.
Charlotte NC and Hartford.
In 1990, I would go so far to say that Hartford had a much more vibrant, larger downtown.
In those 20 years Hartford's skyline has pretty much stayed the same.
The city has lost population.
Hartford lost a major sports franchise and has not be able to attract another in 14 years.
Hartford tried to get a NFL team, and failed.
The arena lost it's retail, and the facility is in DIRE need of a revamp.
Every project that has taken place is either state funded or heavily subsidized by the government.
The ONE fully privately funded project sits as a hole in the ground for a couple years now.
Hartford has had a single spur busway in the plans for about 15 years with no movement.
In contrast, Charlotte doubled it's population.
Put up TONS of new towers that are occupied and simply ran past Hartford like it was standing still.
A new NASCAR museum downtown (Don't laugh till you see it.)
A new arena.
They lost a major sports franchise and in 2 years had another.
Attracted a NFL team and built a beautiful new stadium.
Dozens of residential towers and buildings.
A new light rail system that is enjoying success.
That's just scratching the surface. Bottom line is THEY GET IT DONE and in 20 years not much as changed here, and in fact in some ways gone backwards.
This is Charlotte in 1997 when I was there. (I know because I can see the crane of the building next to the BOA building that I watched go up.)
7 years earlier, the BOA building was not there, nor the one you see with the crane. In fact three of those buildings were not there for reference. What changed in Hartford from 1990 to 1997? NOTHING.
This was a city that was comparable in size to Hartford just 20 years ago. (For comparison sake, that black building in the first and center second picture would be the same size, and in fact 2 stories taller than Hartford's "premier" tower...Cityplace, built in 1984 - ahem)
Oh look, three more cranes in the air.
Jay, I don't hate Hartford, but I'm also not blind. 20 years...20 years have gone by and I've moved away for school, back, away for work and back and all I've seen are people get more gray and the streets get a little more dirty. Nothing's moving, no one is leading. It's just more community activism and crying and political grandstanding.
I can't sit here and look at what Charlotte has done in 20 years and look at what Hartford has done in 20 years and not see the stark contrast and scratch my head. Sorry.
The original vision for Adrians Landing was much more modest than the bloated version it became when Rowland took it over. He was the one that tried to jam it with everything from a football stadium to destination shopping without regard to the market or reality. The original version was much more realistic for a city the size of Hartford and much closer to what has been built and what is left to built.
Also 13 years is not a long time for a major development the size and scope of Andrian's Landing. Blue Back Square took more than years to go from concept to opening and it was much more modest in scope and more of a "slam dunk" in terms of its chances for being successful. That is considered to be "lightning fast" too.
As for Constitution Plaza, don't "romanticize" the neighborhood it replaced. It was a SLUM. Dirty old run down tenaments with no heat or hot water, multiple apartments sharing one bath, four and five floor walkups, crime, rats and bugs. Go back and read the information from the time of the redevelopment and then try and tell me how great and charming it was.
As for major league sports, Charlotte is located more than 200 miles from the nearest other major city. Hartford is located about 100. Most people in greater Hartford can get to major sports in Boston or New York in under 2 hours. If Charlotte has trouble maintaining a major league sports tem what chance would Hartford stand?
Furthermore you are forgeting that Hartford also has seen many new residental projects downtown. Many more are in the planning stages but were put on hold because of the economic downturn. Jay
Could the Whalers (or another NHL) team be headed back to Hartford. Let's see how much the Governor will pay a team. I say CD start a team and have the Gov pay us. At least the money would stay in CT.
So...uh...I don't think the Whalers are coming back next year.
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