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Ok....but are taxes the only thing that factor into COL?
California has fairly low property taxes. Texas has surprisingly high property taxes.
Property taxes where I live in the suburbs of Rochester, NY are at a higher rate than NC and even at a higher rate than Long Island! Cost of living here is still far lower than Long Island, Connecticut, Northern Virginia etc., and pretty much the same as Raleigh (if not a little lower; especially when compared to Cary or North Raleigh).
They don't have the public unions in Virginia either but you said yourself that the area has become very expensive. They don't have unions OR state income tax in Florida but look at the other things that make it expensive to live there ($20 tolls!!!). And here's the kicker....NC now has droves of people moving in from Florida for "cheaper living" as well. These are largely the folks who are only a generation removed (if even that long) from a mass migration down there from the NYC region. They've even coined the term "half-backers" for them.
Again, I am not trying to say that the triangle is "doomed". Especially because I don't even view the areas people are moving there from as "doomed" in the first place. But I've just seen in person and especially here on these forums a lot statements/sentiments from future or recent transplants who may be under-thinking things a little bit with their assessments of where they moved from and where they moved to and the differences between them.
The culture/policies/government of an area don't just "pop up" and certainly aren't static for very long periods of time. If those things in Connecticut, New York or any other state changed to become something that people feel the need to flee....how is it at all unreasonable to believe that those same things won't develop in the areas they flee to? If CT/LI was affordable/thriving back in the 80's and now has these "plagues"....what's to stop NC from having the same "plagues" in 20 years?
States are rapidly understanding that an inability to control costs leads to an inability to retain many corps they do have, and an inability to attract new ones. (That is what should stop them from repeating others' mistakes).
Over the last 20 years, corps have recognized the jobs they provide are an asset they can utilize to attract offers from states/local governments if they move, and are more willing to do so than ever.
Few jobs are dependent on back office staff (the bulk of American white collar jobs) being in a specific location.
What I'm referring to is the ignorant comments about the poor quality schools to the uneducated/unmotivated workforce, the supposed NC law that requires all developments built since the 1980's require an HOA (my house was built in 1995 and we don't have an HOA), to the "we should be happy we're getting Met Life here and bringing all these superior people from CT" to show us the path to sophistication, etc.
This area is one of the most educated areas of the country (top 5) and we have plenty of good high paying professions here. Sure it's the south, but the south is just as varied as WI would be from CT. We enjoy having a good time, we enjoy the arts, we enjoy college sports (NC State, Duke and UNC) and we enjoy watching NHL hockey (Hurricanes, although I'm still an Islanders fan). Sure the weather gets somewhat hot here in the summer, but it's bearable and we have central AC everywhere. We do get a little snow (average 7 inches per year at RDU airport) and we have a wonderful spring and fall.
It is a slower pace of life in general, but it's definitely not Mayberry. There are a lot of smart and intellectually engaging people in this region and we have plenty of culture, nightlife, restaurants, etc. It's not NYC, but it's not Podunk, USA either. I'm sure there are plenty of people from CT that wouldn't like living here, but I guarantee there would be more that would absolutely love it. It's a very diverse area and the schools in most of Wake County (Raleigh, Cary, Apex, Morrisville, etc.) are very good schools, contrary to what some on this thread have posted.
Take some time to educate yourself, before you paint a broad picture of an entire region.
fair enough..not sure i agree but I see your points.
Ok....but are taxes the only thing that factor into COL?
California has fairly low property taxes. Texas has surprisingly high property taxes.
Property taxes where I live in the suburbs of Rochester, NY are at a higher rate than NC and even at a higher rate than Long Island! Cost of living here is still far lower than Long Island, Connecticut, Northern Virginia etc., and pretty much the same as Raleigh (if not a little lower; especially when compared to Cary or North Raleigh).
They don't have the public unions in Virginia either but you said yourself that the area has become very expensive. They don't have unions OR state income tax in Florida but look at the other things that make it expensive to live there ($20 tolls!!!). And here's the kicker....NC now has droves of people moving in from Florida for "cheaper living" as well. These are largely the folks who are only a generation removed (if even that long) from a mass migration down there from the NYC region. They've even coined the term "half-backers" for them.
Again, I am not trying to say that the triangle is "doomed". Especially because I don't even view the areas people are moving there from as "doomed" in the first place. But I've just seen in person and especially here on these forums a lot statements/sentiments from future or recent transplants who may be under-thinking things a little bit with their assessments of where they moved from and where they moved to and the differences between them.
One key thing that leads to a higher COL is home prices. The traffic in the northeast is bad. This restricts the distance that people can commute each day, which in turns increases demand for housing in the immediate suburbs.
NC does not have the same traffic issues as the northeast, so the commutable distance is much further. Obviously, this can change as people move there over the next 10-15 years. However, they seem to be much more proactive when it comes to planning. They are building freeways all over NC. Meanwhile up here, we build a busway from New Britain to Hartford.
if and when my house sells, I am moving with Metlife to either NC, or preferably Tampa. I went to college in FL, know the lifestyle there is different. For what I am paying now in CT, for a townhouse with $250 a month HOA fees and all they do is plow the snow, remove the leaves, and take away the trash. My taxes are $5k. We pay between two cars (and not fancy cars either, a pickup and a modest SUV) over $900 a year in car taxes. Gas is high here, as are utilities.
I do love CT, love the fact that when we moved here from NY we found it so much cheaper, but things are not so cheap any longer. CT where I live is great, excellent restaurants, nice people, great farms, 4 seasons (although I've had enough of this winter) but jobs are leaving, and increasing the budget isn't helping.
So, I am taking a chance and going south if I can. Nothing to lose. Looking at houses in "New Tampa" take a look at what you get there for about $180k.
Main question here should be are more big corporations going to follow suit? Eventually if this keeps happening, where are people going to work? I would rather stay with one company, what if I leave and go somewhere else and this happens again. I moved to CT and this will be the 3rd time I have been laid off since 2004, once the company went bankrupt, 2nd company was sold to a bigger company based in Wisconsin, and 3rd office is moving. So, time to move on. wife and I have many fond memories in CT, it is a great place but unfortunately I feel will continue to bleed jobs.
if and when my house sells, I am moving with Metlife to either NC, or preferably Tampa. I went to college in FL, know the lifestyle there is different. For what I am paying now in CT, for a townhouse with $250 a month HOA fees and all they do is plow the snow, remove the leaves, and take away the trash. My taxes are $5k. We pay between two cars (and not fancy cars either, a pickup and a modest SUV) over $900 a year in car taxes. Gas is high here, as are utilities.
I do love CT, love the fact that when we moved here from NY we found it so much cheaper, but things are not so cheap any longer. CT where I live is great, excellent restaurants, nice people, great farms, 4 seasons (although I've had enough of this winter) but jobs are leaving, and increasing the budget isn't helping.
So, I am taking a chance and going south if I can. Nothing to lose. Looking at houses in "New Tampa" take a look at what you get there for about $180k.
Main question here should be are more big corporations going to follow suit? Eventually if this keeps happening, where are people going to work? I would rather stay with one company, what if I leave and go somewhere else and this happens again. I moved to CT and this will be the 3rd time I have been laid off since 2004, once the company went bankrupt, 2nd company was sold to a bigger company based in Wisconsin, and 3rd office is moving. So, time to move on. wife and I have many fond memories in CT, it is a great place but unfortunately I feel will continue to bleed jobs.
Good luck to you and your family. I almost feel like I know you from this forum. It is hard to keep having to change jobs and move. I was fortunate in that I worked at a large hospital that, of course, was not going to move. It is hard on couples and families when things like this happen. I hope things work out for you to stay with your company. I have never heard of New Tampa; is it just a new part of Tampa, or a new town? I have a brother who is thinking of relocating to Florida, so he might be interested in that. Me, I am headed to the Mid-Atlantic in a couple of years.
I have been following the coverage of the Met-Life move in the Courant; hope other insurers don't follow suit.
Good luck to you and your family. I almost feel like I know you from this forum. It is hard to keep having to change jobs and move. I was fortunate in that I worked at a large hospital that, of course, was not going to move. It is hard on couples and families when things like this happen. I hope things work out for you to stay with your company. I have never heard of New Tampa; is it just a new part of Tampa, or a new town? I have a brother who is thinking of relocating to Florida, so he might be interested in that. Me, I am headed to the Mid-Atlantic in a couple of years.
I have been following the coverage of the Met-Life move in the Courant; hope other insurers don't follow suit.
I echo those sentiments, 3 job losses in 9 years is extremely stressful. Hopefully, this is the last employment move he ever needs to make.
Hopefully, more corps in general don't follow suit, but I fully expect many of them to. Most are flush with cash, while these moves save mega millions long-term, they require tremendous cash outlays at the outset.
New Tampa is a division of Tampa, looks nice, most developments do have an HOA fee, but taxes are about 1/2 of what I pay here and the HOA fees are about 1/2 as well. We are fortunate, wife is a nurse, she can work anywhere, we are not underwater in our home here , will walk away if it sells with a decent chunk to put down when we find a nice home. Also we have no children, so away we go if possible. I want to make it clear, i do like CT, but it's just not happening for us here any longer.
Don't worry. Continued white collar relocation to North Carolina will drive up cost of living there just fine. And enjoy your enormous HoA fees.
This is what big government pumpers in liberal states always say, but the facts prove otherwise. Dallas, Houston, and Atlanta all have large white collar bases, yet COL has remained relatively flat for decades. Truth is that land limitations and restriction tied with bloated governments are what keep costs so high in the north east and the west coast. I will agree with you on HOAs. They're horrendous in NC and nearly impossible to avoid.
if and when my house sells, I am moving with Metlife to either NC, or preferably Tampa. I went to college in FL, know the lifestyle there is different. For what I am paying now in CT, for a townhouse with $250 a month HOA fees and all they do is plow the snow, remove the leaves, and take away the trash. My taxes are $5k. We pay between two cars (and not fancy cars either, a pickup and a modest SUV) over $900 a year in car taxes. Gas is high here, as are utilities.
I do love CT, love the fact that when we moved here from NY we found it so much cheaper, but things are not so cheap any longer. CT where I live is great, excellent restaurants, nice people, great farms, 4 seasons (although I've had enough of this winter) but jobs are leaving, and increasing the budget isn't helping.
So, I am taking a chance and going south if I can. Nothing to lose. Looking at houses in "New Tampa" take a look at what you get there for about $180k.
Main question here should be are more big corporations going to follow suit? Eventually if this keeps happening, where are people going to work? I would rather stay with one company, what if I leave and go somewhere else and this happens again. I moved to CT and this will be the 3rd time I have been laid off since 2004, once the company went bankrupt, 2nd company was sold to a bigger company based in Wisconsin, and 3rd office is moving. So, time to move on. wife and I have many fond memories in CT, it is a great place but unfortunately I feel will continue to bleed jobs.
I live in South Florida and I'm not a homeowner, but it seems as though HOA fees are considerably less in Florida than in North Carolina. Keep in mind that leaf removal in the fall and snow/ice removal in the winter are unnecessary in FL. That may be a reason why HOA fees in FL tend to be less than in NC. Property taxes are lower in most parts of FL than in NC, but homeowner's insurance may be more expensive in FL. Don't quote me on that, though.
Florida does not tax your vehicle(s) as personal property unlike CT and NC. I was born and raised in RI, another state which taxes vehicles as personal property, so I feel your pain. I lease a brand new car every three years because I enjoy driving new cars. In states like CT, NC, and RI, it's much more expensive to drive a brand new car than in FL because of vehicle property taxes. Most of the time, paying vehicle property taxes is equivalent to paying two car payments. Also, FL does not require annual or biennial automotive inspections like quite a few other states. Because we are only required to have one license plate in FL and there are many vehicles registered in the state, registration fees are fairly nominal, especially considering that FL doesn't tax vehicles as personal property and has neither mandatory auto inspections nor emissions testing. However, auto insurance is fairly high in all of the aforementioned states.
Additionally, NC has an income tax, a higher average sales tax than FL, and a tax on food for home consumption.
Don't think for one minute that North Carolina is inexpensive.
Last edited by WhatUpFLA; 03-15-2013 at 06:18 PM..
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