[BobNJ1960]

Originally Posted by JayCT

You certainly don’t show any knowledge of it, let alone understanding its significance in shaping our world today. There are reasons we have comforts we have and it certainly wasn’t because of the generosity of business owners. You wouldn’t even have access to the education and training you now like to tout without the labor movement so touring a factory today, which I have done, means nothing in this discussion. You are just deflecting. Jay

Not deflecting at all. btw, first the GI bill then student loans were the great openers to attending college. Until then, one did need solid family income. That plus scholarships, grants, etc paid for my education. I paid all loans off in 7 years. My family could not contribute, so I knew years earlier, great grades were a prereq or my loans would have been far higher.

I had about 2/3rd of the Bachelors tuition and fees (w/o room and board) paid via grants and scholarships. Employer paid for Masters. Its a common benefit.

Btw, I am delighted even Target is now paying Tuition Reimbursement. Did you hear about that?

[BobNJ1960]

Stanley Black & Decker shifts 2/3rds of office to either hybrid or perm remote.

The investors in office complexes are in for tough times ahead.

As are restaurants dependent on lunch office traffic.

Paywall Hartford Courant article, otherwise I would link it.

[JayCT]

Originally Posted by BobNJ1960

Stanley Black & Decker shifts 2/3rds of office to either hybrid or perm remote.

The investors in office complexes are in for tough times ahead.

As are restaurants dependent on lunch office traffic.

Paywall Hartford Courant article, otherwise I would link it.

I saw it on Hartford Business Journal. Here’s a link to their article. Jay

https://www.hartfordbusiness.com/art...hird-of-office

[BobNJ1960]

Originally Posted by JayCT

I saw it on Hartford Business Journal. Here’s a link to their article. Jay

https://www.hartfordbusiness.com/art...hird-of-office

Great to see a free site post it.

[JayCT]

Originally Posted by BobNJ1960

My family lived through the Great Depression (prior generation), so all were cautious. NONE drove new cars. Most were two income families continuously.

Very long-term focused, happy to see each generation have it easier. Btw, money did not interfere with meal prep. All took great pride in serving terrific meals. I had an aunt who chose to make homemade tomato sauce, and her ingredients cost was far higher than stuff like Ragu, but the taste of hers was incredible.

As for clothing, we did not spend all that much. Most of the clothes were bought at stores like Alexander's, which was inexpensive. Once I began in offices, I bought at Penneys. Btw, my fathers shop required a work uniform they provided at no charge.

Now my generation saw the clothing budget drop like a rock as business casual took over in the 90s. 1991 was the last time I wore a tie at an office other than interviewing before being hired, or when going to a few colleagues funerals.

You still don’t get it. The decisions your family made were all related to saving money. From your aunts homemade sauce to shopping at Alexander’s, they were the options they used. But what did they do before Alexander’s came here in the early 60’s? How much did they have to pay for the meat that often went with your aunt’s sauce? It wasn’t as cheap for them as you seem to think and as a kid, you don’t know how they struggled. Like every good parent they hid their struggles from you.

I only know this from talking at length with family and friends who lived through it after I made the mistake of saying how easy it must of been to my father’s best friend. He was a wonderful man and a great talker. He was full of information that my warped little mind absorbed and for some odd reason kept. Jay

[BobNJ1960]

Originally Posted by JayCT

You still don’t get it. The decisions your family made were all related to saving money. From your aunts homemade sauce to shopping at Alexander’s, they were the options they used. But what did they do before Alexander’s came here in the early 60’s? How much did they have to pay for the meat that often went with your aunt’s sauce? It wasn’t as cheap for them as you seem to think and as a kid, you don’t know how they struggled.

It was not as cheap then, as we had not outsourced clothing manufacturing to Asia, but generally, all families I knew back then bought less clothing. I also knew from a uncle who worked for a clothing manufacturer, higher end stores were getting the same shirts as stores like Alexanders in many cases, but marked with far higher prices. He made them for both store types.

Alexander's was not the regions first low priced store, btw.

Btw, my mothers family was 100% Italian, and simply found the concept of purchased tomato sauce in name only horrible. My aunt who made the best sauce I ever had bought expensive ingredients in doing so.

PS: Wal Mart's savings affect on its shoppers has been independently analyzed at $500+ annually. I wish it began far sooner. Many items I buy there I have priced elsewhere. They lowered retail pricing by being the first to negotiate with suppliers based on shelf price down as opposed to historical manufacturers price up. Very aggressive organization, who knew once they got sufficient market share, they, not the manufacturer, held the power.

[Stepfordct]

Originally Posted by JayCT

So your workers should be subjected to an entire life of near poverty and struggle so you can have the finer things in life? Come on now. You try living on less than $24,000 a year and tell me how easy it is.

And don’t try to make us feel sorry for you having to pay UI, workman’s comp and federal taxes. I’ll bet you bill out each worker at a 2.5 to 3.0 multiplier. That’s what my employer does and they turn in a tidy profit every year even after paying overhead and benefits. It’s hardly violin worthy. Jay

Jay, pointing out the other costs associated with wages is simply to help those who may not understand all the hidden costs. There are more still but I kept to the basics.
This is not about a pity party. Simply math.
Have a profit sharing plan, some start at minimum wage. Some do not. Some make significantly more than minimum. With other benefits as well.
But thanks for playing the emotions here.

[JayCT]

Originally Posted by BobNJ1960

Great to see a free site post it.

Unfortunately they only allow so many free views a month now. That’s why I pick and choose what I post from them now. Used to post a lot more. Jay

[BobNJ1960]

Originally Posted by Stepfordct

Jay, pointing out the other costs associated with wages is simply to help those who may not understand all the hidden costs. There are more still but I kept to the basics.
This is not about a pity party. Simply math.
Have a profit sharing plan, some start at minimum wage. Some do not. Some make significantly more than minimum. With other benefits as well.
But thanks for playing the emotions here.

I wish more employers would share full cost of employment statements with staff, showing per individual what they are.

In general, employees get $.70 net per $1 gross and the $1 cost employers around $1.40 to $1.50 per staff member with benefits. That is the big problem. How we created a system where when the employer spends 150% of gross , the employee gets just 70%. The gap is largely paid to government, and many forms of taxation.

Resenting employers is counter productive no matter who does it. Get another job whenever you are. That statement applies to all. Employment At Will is a powerful tool of both employer and employee.

[JayCT]

Originally Posted by BobNJ1960

It was not as cheap then, as we had not outsourced clothing manufacturing to Asia, but generally, all families I knew back then bought less clothing. I also knew from a uncle who worked for a clothing manufacturer, higher end stores were getting the same shirts as stores like Alexanders in many cases, but marked with far higher prices. He made them for both store types.

Alexander's was not the regions first low priced store, btw.

Btw, my mothers family was 100% Italian, and simply found the concept of purchased tomato sauce in name only horrible. My aunt who made the best sauce I ever had bought expensive ingredients in doing so.

PS: Wal Mart's savings affect on its shoppers has been independently analyzed at $500+ annually. I wish it began far sooner. Many items I buy there I have priced elsewhere. They lowered retail pricing by being the first to negotiate with suppliers based on shelf price down as opposed to historical manufacturers price up. Very aggressive organization, who knew once they got sufficient market share, they, not the manufacturer, held the power.

Ah, but Alexander’s was among the first. My family used to drive to White Plains where they had a store before Milford opened. It was that unique. Not many people did that back in the 50’s. Remember, the highway system was not as extensive and driving that distance cost money so you really had to save a lot to make it worthwhile.

People did buy less clothing and what they bought had to last because it was so expensive. That goes for shoes as well which ate up an even larger portion of your family budget. There were no such thing as discount shoe stores. When you had growing kids, it got very expensive to keep them clothed and shoed.

My point is your family, just like mine, faced a very difficult decisions to survive. It certainly was as tough, if not tougher than we face these days. As a kid you did not see it but it was there. Jay