03-19-2014, 02:18 PM
363 posts, read
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Quote:
Originally Posted by
mlassoff
I haven't met anyone who's anti second amendment. This is a disingenuous argument, as I'm sure you're already aware.
I've run into several anti-2A people that think police and military are the only people allowed to bear arms. Look at that loser Piers Morgan! I'm actually okay with registration but the criminals in Hartford banned us from buying these "evil" looking rifles after last April. That I'm not okay with.
03-19-2014, 02:26 PM
Location: New London County, CT
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Reputation: 5145
Quote:
Originally Posted by
FILF
I've run into several anti-2A people that think police and military are the only people allowed to bear arms. Look at that loser Piers Morgan! I'm actually okay with registration but the criminals in Hartford banned us from buying these "evil" looking rifles after last April. That I'm not okay with.
And that's fine. I don't think that's an unreasonable opinion, but just like you don't want to be painted with same brush as the lunatic fringe in your party, neither do I. Pretending that the majority of liberals are anti-second amendment is just untrue... We could have better discussion if people didn't attribute false positions to those on the other side of the debate.
03-19-2014, 02:42 PM
Location: CT
2,122 posts, read
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Quote:
Originally Posted by
mlassoff
The first study uses sources from the Brady Campaign which is the NRA of gun hate. I'm hesitant to accept non bias there.
All the second study is claiming is that there is an increase in gun related homicides and suicides where guns are more available. Startling. It's like performing a study that concludes more people die in luxury sports car accidents in Dubai than anywhere else in the nation. It doesn't tell you anything about cause, it doesn't tell you anything about overall murder, and it most certainly tells you nothing about AW's. Chicago has the strictest gun control yet huge number of homicides. Well, memphis has like, no gun control and also plenty of homicides. comparing cities with strict vs lax gun laws shows you that gun control is pretty much a wash (which is what the recent CDC study showed). It didn't say "more guns = less crime" or anything like that, it just stated simply that further gun control will not have an impact on public safety. The 2nd reference also uses suicide which is also useless in terms of public safety.
Sorry if you feel I'm accusing you of being "anti 2nd amendment". We will call it, anti AW? This is your state to, you pay taxes just like I do and I'm not trying to dismiss your opinion, I just know that it's impossible to know everything about all issues that concern you and am trying to provide information you won't read in the Hartford Courant. Those comments were meant to apply to the political system, not a particular person on here. I know plenty of liberal gun owners.
I would be surprised if you even knew what the law was and what any of it means. Do you know what the difference is between a muzzle break, flash suppressor, sound suppressor? Do you know what a barrel shroud is? a telescoping stock? a VFG? or any of the other ridiculous things that make a gun an "AW"? You would be surprised to find out they do nothing to add to the lethality of a gun, but actually make it safer to operate.
Registration might sound reasonable from whatever unrealistic perspective the generally anti gun media presents it, but do you REALLY think it would have stopped the events that spawned its existence?
Also very important to keep in mind, is that even if you read a study that said guns are horrible and account for 90% of all crime blah blah blah. AWs, the real issue hear, would account for less than 1% of that. So not being against the second amendment but being against AWs just smells fishy to many.
03-19-2014, 02:52 PM
Location: New London County, CT
8,949 posts, read
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Quote:
Originally Posted by
Sigequinox
The first study uses sources from the Brady Campaign which is the NRA of gun hate. I'm hesitant to accept non bias there.
Right.. The studies that support your position are perfect, the ones that support the opposite position are biased? Got ya.
The first study was by Boston Children's Hospital-- who I assume's first focus would be the health and well being of children. It was reported on by USA Today... not exactly a liberal rag....
You screamed about empirical studies in the last post... These are empirical studies... But now you want to cherry pick. I guess that's permitted in the right-wing derp bubble.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Sigequinox
All the second study is claiming is that there is an increase in gun related homicides and suicides where guns are more available. Startling. It's like performing a study that concludes more people die in luxury sports car accidents in Dubai than anywhere else in the nation. It doesn't tell you anything about cause, it doesn't tell you anything about overall murder, and it most certainly tells you nothing about AW's. Chicago has the strictest gun control yet huge number of homicides. Well, memphis has like, no gun control and also plenty of homicides. comparing cities with strict vs lax gun laws shows you that gun control is pretty much a wash (which is what the recent CDC study showed). It didn't say "more guns = less crime" or anything like that, it just stated simply that further gun control will not have an impact on public safety. The 2nd reference also uses suicide which is also useless in terms of public safety.
Again, you choose to ignore empirical data that doesn't advance your position... Furthermore, I think that non-criminal related deaths-- suicides, accidents-- are tragic too and part of the picture. (I know, I know, doesn't advance your cause...). This study says "More guns = More gun deaths" not "More guns = More children protected from home invasions (or government tyranny) and I find that to be significant...
From the study abstract:
Quote:
A statistically significant association exists between gun availability and the rates of unintentional firearm deaths, homicides, and suicides. The elevated rates of suicide and homicide among children living in states with more guns is not entirely explained by a state's poverty, education, or urbanization and is driven by lethal firearm violence, not by lethal non-firearm violence.
03-19-2014, 02:56 PM
442 posts, read
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Quote:
Originally Posted by
Bideshi
Maybe the ones you know are all in the 10% that are willing to be enslaved.
Hmm. I fail to understand your Schlussfolgerung, but hey, I'll take the bait.
In a democratic society, how is following the law equivalent with being enslaved? Please elaborate.
Where do you get your 10% statistic from?
El.
03-19-2014, 03:05 PM
415 posts, read
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Reputation: 547
[quote=Lalalally;33885307]This is one of the articles I read. No, NBC news did not post a PDF image of the actual letter, but I kinda take them at their word.
State Urges Gun Owners to Turn in Unregistered Weapons | NBC Connecticut [/QUOT
I read what you posted, made me wonder if these letter's we sent registered mail ?? be cause if it wasn't and I was them, I would go with i never got it, prove i got one..
03-19-2014, 03:10 PM
Location: CT
2,122 posts, read
2,419,778 times
Reputation: 1675
Quote:
Originally Posted by
mlassoff
Right.. The studies that support your position are perfect, the ones that support the opposite position are biased? Got ya.
So you would be on board with a study done by Hospital X that sources it's data from the NRA? Cool. Ill go find a study and then accuse you of cherry picking when you call it BS...
You seriously think that suicides should impact the law? So, the guy down the street offs himself and that's somehow MY fault? You know almost 50% og gun deaths are suicide, right?I should be okay with the data used including the 50% of people that took their own life? That's outrageous and beyond misleading. The next thing you know your going to tell me MAIG's list with dead terrorists from a police shoot out is viable data. come on.
Vetting is not "cherry picking". Of course you want suicide involved because it advances YOUR cause. Ultimately, there needs to be an ethical line drawn about what type of behavior warrants punishing the entire population. I draw the line at someone taking their life which harms no one but them selves. You don't.
How many people and precious angel children does alcohol need to kill before you start going on tirades against that? Oh, what's the matter, you drink and that would affect YOUR life so its not important to you?
03-19-2014, 03:13 PM
415 posts, read
764,177 times
Reputation: 547
Quote:
Originally Posted by
El Scorcho
Hmm. I fail to understand your Schlussfolgerung, but hey, I'll take the bait.
Just because it's a law does not make it right .... If they make a law tomorrow = All first born must be Euthanize, Im not going along with it, ya but it's the law....
Just because we go to war with a Country and win'''' doesn't mean we are right, we are the winners there for we must be right... It's a USA mentality thing...
03-19-2014, 03:26 PM
Location: New London County, CT
8,949 posts, read
12,131,290 times
Reputation: 5145
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Sigequinox
So you would be on board with a study done by Hospital X that sources it's data from the NRA? Cool. Ill go find a study and then accuse you of cherry picking when you call it BS...
You're the one who was screaming that we should all pay attention to the empirical data... Why don't you like my empirical data? Good luck finding a hospital study that uses data from the NRA, btw.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Sigequinox
You seriously think that suicides should impact the law? So, the guy down the street offs himself and that's somehow MY fault?
Huh? Who said it's your fault? Why do you personalize this? You're all about empirical data, right? If availability of guns impacts the number of teen suicides, I'd like to know that, yes. I'd like to discuss it in light of mental health needs, gun availability, gun safety and training and gun legislation. Why are you defensive on this? Should we just ignore suicide as an issue?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Sigequinox
You know almost 50% og gun deaths are suicide, right?
More evidence to my above point....
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Sigequinox
Vetting is not "cherry picking".
It is when you start with the conclusion and work backwards. What type of "vetting" did you do with the original empirical data you were trumpeting? Let's face it-- you're trying to undermine study's that have conclusions you don't like, and disregard tertiary issues, like suicide and gun accidents, that don't enhance your position...
That's not very empirical. That's emotional.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Sigequinox
How many people and precious angel children does alcohol need to kill before you start going on tirades against that? Oh, what's the matter, you drink and that would affect YOUR life so its not important to you?
I actually don't drink. I do care about any unnecessary death-- Child or adult. The better question, might be, why don't you?
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School enrollment - Not enrolled (%)
Median number of rooms in houses and condos
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Housing units lacking complete kitchen facilities (%)
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Urban houses (%)
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Geographical mobility - Same house 1 year ago (%)
Geographical mobility - Moved within same county (%)
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Housing units in structures - 1, detached (%)
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Housing units in structures - Mobile home (%)
Housing units in structures - Boat, RV, van, etc. (%)
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Industry diversity
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Most Common Occupations - Construction and extraction occupations (%)
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Most Common Occupations - Production, transportation, and material moving occupations (%)
Most Common Occupations - Production occupations (%)
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Most Common Occupations - Material moving occupations (%)
People in Group quarters - Institutionalized population (%)
People in Group quarters - Correctional institutions (%)
People in Group quarters - Federal prisons and detention centers (%)
People in Group quarters - Halfway houses (%)
People in Group quarters - Local jails and other confinement facilities (including police lockups) (%)
People in Group quarters - Military disciplinary barracks (%)
People in Group quarters - State prisons (%)
People in Group quarters - Other types of correctional institutions (%)
People in Group quarters - Nursing homes (%)
People in Group quarters - Hospitals/wards, hospices, and schools for the handicapped (%)
People in Group quarters - Hospitals/wards and hospices for chronically ill (%)
People in Group quarters - Hospices or homes for chronically ill (%)
People in Group quarters - Military hospitals or wards for chronically ill (%)
People in Group quarters - Other hospitals or wards for chronically ill (%)
People in Group quarters - Hospitals or wards for drug/alcohol abuse (%)
People in Group quarters - Mental (Psychiatric) hospitals or wards (%)
People in Group quarters - Schools, hospitals, or wards for the mentally retarded (%)
People in Group quarters - Schools, hospitals, or wards for the physically handicapped (%)
People in Group quarters - Institutions for the deaf (%)
People in Group quarters - Institutions for the blind (%)
People in Group quarters - Orthopedic wards and institutions for the physically handicapped (%)
People in Group quarters - Wards in general hospitals for patients who have no usual home elsewhere (%)
People in Group quarters - Wards in military hospitals for patients who have no usual home elsewhere (%)
People in Group quarters - Juvenile institutions (%)
People in Group quarters - Long-term care (%)
People in Group quarters - Homes for abused, dependent, and neglected children (%)
People in Group quarters - Residential treatment centers for emotionally disturbed children (%)
People in Group quarters - Training schools for juvenile delinquents (%)
People in Group quarters - Short-term care, detention or diagnostic centers for delinquent children (%)
People in Group quarters - Type of juvenile institution unknown (%)
People in Group quarters - Noninstitutionalized population (%)
People in Group quarters - College dormitories (includes college quarters off campus) (%)
People in Group quarters - Military quarters (%)
People in Group quarters - On base (%)
People in Group quarters - Barracks, unaccompanied personnel housing (UPH), (Enlisted/Officer), ;and similar group living quarters for military personnel (%)
People in Group quarters - Transient quarters for temporary residents (%)
People in Group quarters - Military ships (%)
People in Group quarters - Group homes (%)
People in Group quarters - Homes or halfway houses for drug/alcohol abuse (%)
People in Group quarters - Homes for the mentally ill (%)
People in Group quarters - Homes for the mentally retarded (%)
People in Group quarters - Homes for the physically handicapped (%)
People in Group quarters - Other group homes (%)
People in Group quarters - Religious group quarters (%)
People in Group quarters - Dormitories (%)
People in Group quarters - Agriculture workers' dormitories on farms (%)
People in Group quarters - Job Corps and vocational training facilities (%)
People in Group quarters - Other workers' dormitories (%)
People in Group quarters - Crews of maritime vessels (%)
People in Group quarters - Other nonhousehold living situations (%)
People in Group quarters - Other noninstitutional group quarters (%)
Residents speaking English at home (%)
Residents speaking English at home - Born in the United States (%)
Residents speaking English at home - Native, born elsewhere (%)
Residents speaking English at home - Foreign born (%)
Residents speaking Spanish at home (%)
Residents speaking Spanish at home - Born in the United States (%)
Residents speaking Spanish at home - Native, born elsewhere (%)
Residents speaking Spanish at home - Foreign born (%)
Residents speaking other language at home (%)
Residents speaking other language at home - Born in the United States (%)
Residents speaking other language at home - Native, born elsewhere (%)
Residents speaking other language at home - Foreign born (%)
Class of Workers - Employee of private company (%)
Class of Workers - Self-employed in own incorporated business (%)
Class of Workers - Private not-for-profit wage and salary workers (%)
Class of Workers - Local government workers (%)
Class of Workers - State government workers (%)
Class of Workers - Federal government workers (%)
Class of Workers - Self-employed workers in own not incorporated business and Unpaid family workers (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Utility gas (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Bottled, tank, or LP gas (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Electricity (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Fuel oil, kerosene, etc. (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Coal or coke (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Wood (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Solar energy (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Other fuel (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - No fuel used (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Utility gas (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Bottled, tank, or LP gas (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Electricity (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Fuel oil, kerosene, etc. (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Coal or coke (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Wood (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Solar energy (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Other fuel (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - No fuel used (%)
Armed forces status - In Armed Forces (%)
Armed forces status - Civilian (%)
Armed forces status - Civilian - Veteran (%)
Armed forces status - Civilian - Nonveteran (%)
Fatal accidents locations in years 2005-2021
Fatal accidents locations in 2005
Fatal accidents locations in 2006
Fatal accidents locations in 2007
Fatal accidents locations in 2008
Fatal accidents locations in 2009
Fatal accidents locations in 2010
Fatal accidents locations in 2011
Fatal accidents locations in 2012
Fatal accidents locations in 2013
Fatal accidents locations in 2014
Fatal accidents locations in 2015
Fatal accidents locations in 2016
Fatal accidents locations in 2017
Fatal accidents locations in 2018
Fatal accidents locations in 2019
Fatal accidents locations in 2020
Fatal accidents locations in 2021
Alcohol use - People drinking some alcohol every month (%)
Alcohol use - People not drinking at all (%)
Alcohol use - Average days/month drinking alcohol
Alcohol use - Average drinks/week
Alcohol use - Average days/year people drink much
Audiometry - Average condition of hearing (%)
Audiometry - People that can hear a whisper from across a quiet room (%)
Audiometry - People that can hear normal voice from across a quiet room (%)
Audiometry - Ears ringing, roaring, buzzing (%)
Audiometry - Had a job exposure to loud noise (%)
Audiometry - Had off-work exposure to loud noise (%)
Blood Pressure & Cholesterol - Has high blood pressure (%)
Blood Pressure & Cholesterol - Checking blood pressure at home (%)
Blood Pressure & Cholesterol - Frequently checking blood cholesterol (%)
Blood Pressure & Cholesterol - Has high cholesterol level (%)
Consumer Behavior - Money monthly spent on food at supermarket/grocery store
Consumer Behavior - Money monthly spent on food at other stores
Consumer Behavior - Money monthly spent on eating out
Consumer Behavior - Money monthly spent on carryout/delivered foods
Consumer Behavior - Income spent on food at supermarket/grocery store (%)
Consumer Behavior - Income spent on food at other stores (%)
Consumer Behavior - Income spent on eating out (%)
Consumer Behavior - Income spent on carryout/delivered foods (%)
Current Health Status - General health condition (%)
Current Health Status - Blood donors (%)
Current Health Status - Has blood ever tested for HIV virus (%)
Current Health Status - Left-handed people (%)
Dermatology - People using sunscreen (%)
Diabetes - Diabetics (%)
Diabetes - Had a blood test for high blood sugar (%)
Diabetes - People taking insulin (%)
Diet Behavior & Nutrition - Diet health (%)
Diet Behavior & Nutrition - Milk product consumption (# of products/month)
Diet Behavior & Nutrition - Meals not home prepared (#/week)
Diet Behavior & Nutrition - Meals from fast food or pizza place (#/week)
Diet Behavior & Nutrition - Ready-to-eat foods (#/month)
Diet Behavior & Nutrition - Frozen meals/pizza (#/month)
Drug Use - People that ever used marijuana or hashish (%)
Drug Use - Ever used hard drugs (%)
Drug Use - Ever used any form of cocaine (%)
Drug Use - Ever used heroin (%)
Drug Use - Ever used methamphetamine (%)
Health Insurance - People covered by health insurance (%)
Kidney Conditions-Urology - Avg. # of times urinating at night
Medical Conditions - People with asthma (%)
Medical Conditions - People with anemia (%)
Medical Conditions - People with psoriasis (%)
Medical Conditions - People with overweight (%)
Medical Conditions - Elderly people having difficulties in thinking or remembering (%)
Medical Conditions - People who ever received blood transfusion (%)
Medical Conditions - People having trouble seeing even with glass/contacts (%)
Medical Conditions - People with arthritis (%)
Medical Conditions - People with gout (%)
Medical Conditions - People with congestive heart failure (%)
Medical Conditions - People with coronary heart disease (%)
Medical Conditions - People with angina pectoris (%)
Medical Conditions - People who ever had heart attack (%)
Medical Conditions - People who ever had stroke (%)
Medical Conditions - People with emphysema (%)
Medical Conditions - People with thyroid problem (%)
Medical Conditions - People with chronic bronchitis (%)
Medical Conditions - People with any liver condition (%)
Medical Conditions - People who ever had cancer or malignancy (%)
Mental Health - People who have little interest in doing things (%)
Mental Health - People feeling down, depressed, or hopeless (%)
Mental Health - People who have trouble sleeping or sleeping too much (%)
Mental Health - People feeling tired or having little energy (%)
Mental Health - People with poor appetite or overeating (%)
Mental Health - People feeling bad about themself (%)
Mental Health - People who have trouble concentrating on things (%)
Mental Health - People moving or speaking slowly or too fast (%)
Mental Health - People having thoughts they would be better off dead (%)
Oral Health - Average years since last visit a dentist
Oral Health - People embarrassed because of mouth (%)
Oral Health - People with gum disease (%)
Oral Health - General health of teeth and gums (%)
Oral Health - Average days a week using dental floss/device
Oral Health - Average days a week using mouthwash for dental problem
Oral Health - Average number of teeth
Pesticide Use - Households using pesticides to control insects (%)
Pesticide Use - Households using pesticides to kill weeds (%)
Physical Activity - People doing vigorous-intensity work activities (%)
Physical Activity - People doing moderate-intensity work activities (%)
Physical Activity - People walking or bicycling (%)
Physical Activity - People doing vigorous-intensity recreational activities (%)
Physical Activity - People doing moderate-intensity recreational activities (%)
Physical Activity - Average hours a day doing sedentary activities
Physical Activity - Average hours a day watching TV or videos
Physical Activity - Average hours a day using computer
Physical Functioning - People having limitations keeping them from working (%)
Physical Functioning - People limited in amount of work they can do (%)
Physical Functioning - People that need special equipment to walk (%)
Physical Functioning - People experiencing confusion/memory problems (%)
Physical Functioning - People requiring special healthcare equipment (%)
Prescription Medications - Average number of prescription medicines taking
Preventive Aspirin Use - Adults 40+ taking low-dose aspirin (%)
Reproductive Health - Vaginal deliveries (%)
Reproductive Health - Cesarean deliveries (%)
Reproductive Health - Deliveries resulted in a live birth (%)
Reproductive Health - Pregnancies resulted in a delivery (%)
Reproductive Health - Women breastfeeding newborns (%)
Reproductive Health - Women that had a hysterectomy (%)
Reproductive Health - Women that had both ovaries removed (%)
Reproductive Health - Women that have ever taken birth control pills (%)
Reproductive Health - Women taking birth control pills (%)
Reproductive Health - Women that have ever used Depo-Provera or injectables (%)
Reproductive Health - Women that have ever used female hormones (%)
Sexual Behavior - People 18+ that ever had sex (vaginal, anal, or oral) (%)
Sexual Behavior - Males 18+ that ever had vaginal sex with a woman (%)
Sexual Behavior - Males 18+ that ever performed oral sex on a woman (%)
Sexual Behavior - Males 18+ that ever had anal sex with a woman (%)
Sexual Behavior - Males 18+ that ever had any sex with a man (%)
Sexual Behavior - Females 18+ that ever had vaginal sex with a man (%)
Sexual Behavior - Females 18+ that ever performed oral sex on a man (%)
Sexual Behavior - Females 18+ that ever had anal sex with a man (%)
Sexual Behavior - Females 18+ that ever had any kind of sex with a woman (%)
Sexual Behavior - Average age people first had sex
Sexual Behavior - Average number of female sex partners in lifetime (males 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of female vaginal sex partners in lifetime (males 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average age people first performed oral sex on a woman (18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of woman performed oral sex on in lifetime (18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of male sex partners in lifetime (males 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of male anal sex partners in lifetime (males 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average age people first performed oral sex on a man (18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of male oral sex partners in lifetime (18+)
Sexual Behavior - People using protection when performing oral sex (%)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of times people have vaginal or anal sex a year
Sexual Behavior - People having sex without condom (%)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of male sex partners in lifetime (females 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of male vaginal sex partners in lifetime (females 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of female sex partners in lifetime (females 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Circumcised males 18+ (%)
Sleep Disorders - Average hours sleeping at night
Sleep Disorders - People that has trouble sleeping (%)
Smoking-Cigarette Use - People smoking cigarettes (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ having problems with smell (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ having problems with taste (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ that ever had wisdom teeth removed (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ that ever had tonsils teeth removed (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ that ever had a loss of consciousness because of a head injury (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ that ever had a broken nose or other serious injury to face or skull (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ that ever had two or more sinus infections (%)
Weight - Average height (inches)
Weight - Average weight (pounds)
Weight - Average BMI
Weight - People that are obese (%)
Weight - People that ever were obese (%)
Weight - People trying to lose weight (%)
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