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Old 12-07-2014, 07:36 AM
 
4,714 posts, read 5,924,292 times
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The Hartford Courant had mentioned the deficit was going to be around $1.3 billion, but Malloy had said that normal legislative processes and delaying some spending would make it around $800 million. It doesn't seem like the deficit was hidden from The Hartford Courant? They considered the smaller deficit a plus, since it was $3.7 billion when he came into office.
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Old 12-07-2014, 07:38 AM
 
3,432 posts, read 3,911,636 times
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The deficit was pretty well covered in papers like the Courant. Not sure why people are surprised by this, or blaming Malloy for not telling them about it. He's a politician trying to get re-elected. Of course he's going to gloss over or omit things that don't help him!
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Old 12-07-2014, 07:49 AM
 
1,679 posts, read 3,005,758 times
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I've said it a thousand times before and I'll say it again

The average ct voter does not care about the deficit for one of two reasons

1. They are in the lower class and get government handouts from the government and have nothing to loose if the state raises taxes because they don't pay any. This is why the cities went to the democrats.

Look at the funding of our public schools. Schools are paid by local property taxes and 25% of income taxes as well. The income tax dollars go largely to the cities so these people have an incentive to vote democrat.

2. They are elitist liberals who think they can create utopia out of they're government programs. They abhor republicans who they see as religious gun toting nuts. Colin Macenroe fits this description to a t. He never had a real job so he just rides the fact that he graduated from Yale yapping on npr spreading his self aggrandizing rhetoric. People from west hartford are like Macenroe whole food shopping elitist clueless snobs.

Again I'm glad I left this state
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Old 12-07-2014, 10:48 AM
 
Location: Connecticut
2,488 posts, read 4,690,954 times
Reputation: 2548
Quote:
Originally Posted by hartford_renter View Post
I've said it a thousand times before and I'll say it again

The average ct voter does not care about the deficit for one of two reasons

1. They are in the lower class and get government handouts from the government and have nothing to loose if the state raises taxes because they don't pay any. This is why the cities went to the democrats.

Look at the funding of our public schools. Schools are paid by local property taxes and 25% of income taxes as well. The income tax dollars go largely to the cities so these people have an incentive to vote democrat.

2. They are elitist liberals who think they can create utopia out of they're government programs. They abhor republicans who they see as religious gun toting nuts. Colin Macenroe fits this description to a t. He never had a real job so he just rides the fact that he graduated from Yale yapping on npr spreading his self aggrandizing rhetoric. People from west hartford are like Macenroe whole food shopping elitist clueless snobs.

Again I'm glad I left this state
Believe me, you're sorely missed. I love how you criticize people for stereotyping Republicans and then paint anyone not affiliated with that party with the same, broad brush. And the way you stereotype people by town. You obviously didn't read my comments.

Enjoy Texas. Curiously, the Republicans of that state oftentimes fit the profile of the generalizations you complain about. Perhaps if there were moderates there as there are in the Northeast (whom I often support, by the way), things might be different.

Last edited by MikefromCT; 12-07-2014 at 10:57 AM..
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Old 12-07-2014, 11:37 AM
 
Location: Connecticut
34,700 posts, read 56,496,602 times
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It does not matter what town voted what way, the point is that majority of all voters re-elected Malloy. It is that simple. The fact that there is currently a deficit is not a big surprise to anyone who paid attention during the election. Jay
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Old 12-07-2014, 11:38 AM
 
Location: Connecticut
34,700 posts, read 56,496,602 times
Reputation: 11162
Quote:
Originally Posted by MikefromCT View Post
Believe me, you're sorely missed. I love how you criticize people for stereotyping Republicans and then paint anyone not affiliated with that party with the same, broad brush. And the way you stereotype people by town. You obviously didn't read my comments.

Enjoy Texas. Curiously, the Republicans of that state oftentimes fit the profile of the generalizations you complain about. Perhaps if there were moderates there as there are in the Northeast (whom I often support, by the way), things might be different.
I agree. Jay
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Old 12-07-2014, 11:48 AM
 
2,325 posts, read 2,148,992 times
Reputation: 1328
Quote:
Originally Posted by hartford_renter View Post
I've said it a thousand times before and I'll say it again

The average ct voter does not care about the deficit for one of two reasons

1. They are in the lower class and get government handouts from the government and have nothing to loose if the state raises taxes because they don't pay any. This is why the cities went to the democrats.

Look at the funding of our public schools. Schools are paid by local property taxes and 25% of income taxes as well. The income tax dollars go largely to the cities so these people have an incentive to vote democrat.

2. They are elitist liberals who think they can create utopia out of they're government programs. They abhor republicans who they see as religious gun toting nuts. Colin Macenroe fits this description to a t. He never had a real job so he just rides the fact that he graduated from Yale yapping on npr spreading his self aggrandizing rhetoric. People from west hartford are like Macenroe whole food shopping elitist clueless snobs.

Again I'm glad I left this state
The income tax part of the state supporting inner-city public schools is mostly PILOT reimbursements, because the State owns a lot of valuable property in those cities that are mostly tax exempt the cities really get a raw deal on it. Let's have Weston, Wilton, Avon, Saybrook, et. al. have the Universities, Hospitals, Jails, Public Housing, Courthouses, etc that dry up the grand list in whatever town they are in.

Most of the cities vote Democrat because Republicans can't connect to voters in any meaningful way, understand their concerns (whether real or imaginary), and just simply can't help but to blame all of societies ills squarely on them. Sure there are drug dealers in NH, Hartford, BPT but if you think their clientele is only in those cities pass me whatever you're smoking.

As for the liberal elitist comment, I think that's unfair and I'm more fiscally aware even on the conservative side. What the Republicans have been able to do is basically become the mosaic party of one-issue voters. It's been an ok strategy but won't last if off year voting trends reverse.

Why doesn't the deficit not matter as much? Because we "free market" companies do what the states are doing all the time! God anyone who has a loan but decries governmental debt has no idea how the real world works, full stop. How does the cash-on-hand ratio of the state size up? What percentage of GSP is the debt load? Is the state paying bills more or less on time? These are some of the issues that would immediately effect the state economy, and in a large fashion. The debt is something to keep an eye on but the absolute hysteria around it is simply misplaced, so thanks Grover.
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Old 12-07-2014, 12:29 PM
 
3,346 posts, read 4,134,723 times
Reputation: 1931
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beeker2211 View Post
The income tax part of the state supporting inner-city public schools is mostly PILOT reimbursements, because the State owns a lot of valuable property in those cities that are mostly tax exempt the cities really get a raw deal on it. Let's have Weston, Wilton, Avon, Saybrook, et. al. have the Universities, Hospitals, Jails, Public Housing, Courthouses, etc that dry up the grand list in whatever town they are in.

Most of the cities vote Democrat because Republicans can't connect to voters in any meaningful way, understand their concerns (whether real or imaginary), and just simply can't help but to blame all of societies ills squarely on them. Sure there are drug dealers in NH, Hartford, BPT but if you think their clientele is only in those cities pass me whatever you're smoking.

As for the liberal elitist comment, I think that's unfair and I'm more fiscally aware even on the conservative side. What the Republicans have been able to do is basically become the mosaic party of one-issue voters. It's been an ok strategy but won't last if off year voting trends reverse.

Why doesn't the deficit not matter as much? Because we "free market" companies do what the states are doing all the time! God anyone who has a loan but decries governmental debt has no idea how the real world works, full stop. How does the cash-on-hand ratio of the state size up? What percentage of GSP is the debt load? Is the state paying bills more or less on time? These are some of the issues that would immediately effect the state economy, and in a large fashion. The debt is something to keep an eye on but the absolute hysteria around it is simply misplaced, so thanks Grover.
I don't understand most of this post. What are you talking about with respect to drying up the grand list? I'll also agree to disagree that the deficit is THE issue to laser in on. You can only rob Peter to pay Paul for so long and our pensions are woefully undefunded. So much so that not moving away from defined benefit type of pension will eventually bankrupt the cities and state. It is not a question of if but when.
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Old 12-07-2014, 03:23 PM
 
2,325 posts, read 2,148,992 times
Reputation: 1328
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wilton2ParkAve View Post
I don't understand most of this post. What are you talking about with respect to drying up the grand list? I'll also agree to disagree that the deficit is THE issue to laser in on. You can only rob Peter to pay Paul for so long and our pensions are woefully undefunded. So much so that not moving away from defined benefit type of pension will eventually bankrupt the cities and state. It is not a question of if but when.
When a property owned by the state is in a municipality (or non-profit), it is technically tax-exempt. That's why there is a Payment in Lieu of Taxes reimbursement but some governors (ehem Rell, Roland) shortchanged the fund. It is an agreement many municipalities that have non-taxable tracts, even if for necessary purposes, get pennies on the dollar for what would be owed by private owners for the same land. It has put enormous pressure on the municipalities. This is basic civics honestly.

As for the "rob Peter to pay Paul" anecdote. It doesn't fly in this case. First of all how many Fortune 500 companies have rolling debt obligations? I'll give you a hint... it's all of them. If I was an investor in a company that wanted to pay everything with cash on hand I'd be super pissed, especially with interest rates as low as they've been in a few generations. Do you have a mortgage? It's the same idea really.

As for the pension obligations, yes that's an issue but unless all the employees try to retire at once it is MUCH more manageable than the hysterics warrant. If the state was having issues making payrolls, paying bond issuances, shorting vendors, etc then yes that's a huge issue in the immediate. As for "not if but when" FFS that hot air has been around since the 70's! 1770's! It's absolutely *******s, CT is not on the brink when it comes to debt load as a percentage of GSP (something like 3rd friggin lowest in the nation). Something like 110% over GSP would be worrying.

Look, the Washington Consensus has been nothing but an abject failure. It's what people that lived in the 19th Century would have believed how economies worked but never has panned out (but applied in the 50's). I don't want to import it here to CT as the results are generally and unabashedly disastrous without a bailout from a bigger power.
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Old 12-07-2014, 04:10 PM
 
3,346 posts, read 4,134,723 times
Reputation: 1931
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beeker2211 View Post
When a property owned by the state is in a municipality (or non-profit), it is technically tax-exempt. That's why there is a Payment in Lieu of Taxes reimbursement but some governors (ehem Rell, Roland) shortchanged the fund. It is an agreement many municipalities that have non-taxable tracts, even if for necessary purposes, get pennies on the dollar for what would be owed by private owners for the same land. It has put enormous pressure on the municipalities. This is basic civics honestly.

As for the "rob Peter to pay Paul" anecdote. It doesn't fly in this case. First of all how many Fortune 500 companies have rolling debt obligations? I'll give you a hint... it's all of them. If I was an investor in a company that wanted to pay everything with cash on hand I'd be super pissed, especially with interest rates as low as they've been in a few generations. Do you have a mortgage? It's the same idea really.

As for the pension obligations, yes that's an issue but unless all the employees try to retire at once it is MUCH more manageable than the hysterics warrant. If the state was having issues making payrolls, paying bond issuances, shorting vendors, etc then yes that's a huge issue in the immediate. As for "not if but when" FFS that hot air has been around since the 70's! 1770's! It's absolutely *******s, CT is not on the brink when it comes to debt load as a percentage of GSP (something like 3rd friggin lowest in the nation). Something like 110% over GSP would be worrying.

Look, the Washington Consensus has been nothing but an abject failure. It's what people that lived in the 19th Century would have believed how economies worked but never has panned out (but applied in the 50's). I don't want to import it here to CT as the results are generally and unabashedly disastrous without a bailout from a bigger power.
Does your debt load calc include healthcare and pension liabilities? Hint: I already know the answer

Also watch the tone beeker. Basic civics? Come back to me when we are talking advanced econometrics or statistical modeling. It was pretty easy to get lost among your drivel.
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