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Old 03-22-2008, 05:06 AM
 
Location: Tolland County- Northeastern CT
4,462 posts, read 7,959,184 times
Reputation: 1237

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I think frankly, the truth about 'Gangs in Vermont' -that particular thread-which I have seen and read; is there 'empirical data'' that shows without a shadow of doubt that gangs and drugs in Vermont are an endemic problem? Or is it an opinion, or question stated on that thread?

Since Vermont was said to be I believe in the top 10 safest states; from the same survey that the OP said CT was #11- it may be objective to say that any such problem would be minimal in Vermont.

And if moving to New England from Austin, I wish you the best of luck- and safety in your long travel to the NE.

Last edited by skytrekker; 03-22-2008 at 05:18 AM..
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Old 03-22-2008, 07:27 AM
 
Location: New England
8,155 posts, read 20,913,501 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by skytrekker View Post
Thanks for the information

however Tennessee which has a low amount of immigration from Latin America, and is far from the southwest also has a high crime rate, as does Alaska. It seems that to extrapolate that illegal immigration is the cause of all crime is untrue.

Other states with high crime rates; Oregon, Arkansas, Georgia, South Carolina, Mississippi, Oklahoma, North Carolina, Colorado, Washington State, Maryland- all seem for the most part except for Colorado geographically far from 'the border'.
To add to the discussion from one social scientist to another

Just because you are not "on the border" does not automatically mean you have less of a concentration of "illegals". Who would have thought Meriden and Danbury CT would have incredibly elevated numbers of Central Americans living there since we are "far from the border"?

I know Greenville SC has a large growing population of Central Americans as do several Midwestern areas as well.

Keep in mind also that "illegal" doesn't automatically mean Central American either.

Do I think ALL crime is tied to illegals? No, of course not. But the point CAN be made that where higher concentrations of illegals exist crime rates have elevated. Moreover citing an Urban Institute study, director of research for the Center for Immigration Studies Steven Camorata noted in 2004: "Roughly 17 percent of the prison population at the federal level are illegal aliens. That's a huge number since illegal aliens only account for about 3 percent of the total population."

Theennnn you have the MS-13 stuff and that's a WHOLE other realm.

Okay, "sources":

Boston Herald

Illegal Immigration ALIPAC - MS-13 Members Gang Rape Two Deaf Teens (Incident #7)

Quote:
MS-13, which stands for La Mara Salvatrucha, is an extremely violent organization with roots in El Salvador, and boasts more than 100 ``hardcore members'' in East Boston who are suspected of brutal machete attacks, rapes and home invasions. There are hundreds more MS-13 gangsters in towns along the North Shore, said Boston police Sgt. Detective Joseph Fiandaca, who has investigated the gang since it began tagging buildings in Maverick Square in 1995. In recent months, intelligence officials in Washington have warned national law enforcement agencies that al-Qaeda terrorists have been spotted with members of MS-13 in El Salvador
The testimony of District Attorney John M. Morganelli before the House Subcommittee on immigration, Border, Security and Claims I believe in 2006 (Note the increase in prison population stated)

U.S. House Judiciary Committee (http://www.house.gov/judiciary/morganelli100103.htm - broken link)

Quote:
"Unfortunately, the majority of illegal aliens who are here are engaged in criminal activity. Identity theft, use of fraudulent social security numbers and green cards, tax evasion, driving without licenses represent some of the crimes that are engaged in by the majority of illegal aliens on a daily basis merely to maintain and hide their illegal status.
In addition, violent crime and drug distribution and possession is also prevalent among illegal aliens. Over 25% of today's federal prison population are illegal aliens. In some areas of the country, 12% of felonies, 25% of burglaries and 34% of thefts are committed by illegal aliens."

And an interesting summary of facts sourced from many different places:
In Los Angeles, 95% of some 1,500 outstanding warrants for homicides are for illegal aliens. About 67% of the 17,000 outstanding fugitive felony warrants are for illegal aliens.

There are currently over 400,000 unaccounted for illegal alien criminals with outstanding deportation orders. At least one fourth of these are hard core criminals.

80,000 to 100,000 illegal aliens who have been convicted of serious crimes are walking the streets. Based on studies they will commit an average of 13 serious crimes per perpetrator.

Illegal aliens are involved in criminal activities at a rate that is 2-5 times their representative proportion of the population.

In 1980, our Federal and state facilities held fewer than 9,000 criminal aliens but at the end of 2003, approximately 267,000 illegal aliens were incarcerated in U.S. correctional facilities at a cost of about $6.8 billion per year.

56% of illegal aliens charged with a reentry offense had previously been convicted on at least 5 prior occasions.

Illegal aliens charged with unlawful reentry had the most extensive criminal histories. 90% had been previously arrested. Of those with a prior arrest, 50% had been arrested for violent or drug-related felonies.

Illegal aliens commit between 700,000 to 1,289,000 or more crimes per year.

Illegal aliens commit at least 2,158 murders each year – a number that represents three times greater participation than their proportion of the population.

Illegal alien sexual predators commit an estimated 130,909 sexual crimes each year.

Nearly 63% of illegal alien sex offenders had been deported on another offense prior to committing the sex crime.

Only 2% of the illegal alien sex offenders in one study had no history of criminal behavior, beyond crossing the border illegally.

In Operation Predator, ICE arrested and deported 6,085 illegal alien pedophiles.

The very brutal MS-13 gang has over 15,000 members and associates in at least 115 different cliques in 33 states.

The overall financial impact of illegal alien crimes is estimated at between $14.4 and $81 billion or more per year.
I can go on for hours with this stuff as there is plenty of evidence supporting Illegals and crime. I do this without "hate" or "malicous intent". I'm simply sharing "data" and "facts". As I have said in the past, some of my friends and workers are Latino so I have no prejudice in my being against "Latinos". But the "illegal" factor generally has some baggage attached and attracks a crowd that "legal" immigration would stem.
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Old 03-22-2008, 08:27 AM
 
Location: Central CT, sometimes FL and NH.
4,476 posts, read 6,725,202 times
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I wrote this awhile ago but it is still relevant as the issue has not gone away.

The link below lists some of my ideas on citizenship and security. It is a compromise and would be dependent on securing the borders first.

Opinion Topics
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Old 03-22-2008, 08:36 AM
 
Location: Tolland County- Northeastern CT
4,462 posts, read 7,959,184 times
Reputation: 1237
Again

as I stated above, from a Sociological perspective
Crime where ever it exists, is a problem that has varying sociological parameters- and no easy concrete answer can be given.

As I said also- blaming any group for what ever reason on criminal activity must be thoroughly researched and data collected and analyzed. Anything less might be of a political message or agenda, that lacks empiricism.
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Old 03-22-2008, 10:33 AM
 
Location: Tolland County- Northeastern CT
4,462 posts, read 7,959,184 times
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The OP discussed the safety of Connecticut - not illegal immigration. It seems the OP and its contents have digressed. Lets keep the thread discussion on the OP.

I believe there was an earlier thread about immigration- it does seem this issue has been discussed at length before.
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Old 03-22-2008, 01:14 PM
 
Location: Floribama
18,923 posts, read 43,211,623 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by skytrekker View Post
Thanks for the information

however Tennessee which has a low amount of immigration from Latin America, and is far from the southwest also has a high crime rate, as does Alaska. It seems that to extrapolate that illegal immigration is the cause of all crime is untrue.

Other states with high crime rates; Oregon, Arkansas, Georgia, South Carolina, Mississippi, Oklahoma, North Carolina, Colorado, Washington State, Maryland- all seem for the most part except for Colorado geographically far from 'the border'.

As a social scientist- I try and gather all information- and then hopefully try and make an appropriate hypothesis. With so many states far from the southwest having an elevated crime rate- its hard still for me to except the fact that crime nationally is a problem manifested by immigration.

The geographic proximity of those states in the southwest to Mexico and Central America may exhibit some correlation to illegal immigration and a higher crime rate- but why is the crime rate as high in Tennessee and Mississippi?

Crime where ever it exists, is a problem that has varying sociological parameters- and no easy concrete answer can be given.
The crime rate in the southern states is mostly a result of the high black population, not illegals. My town is half white/half black and my brother is a deputy, so I see it everyday. And no, it's not because of poverty. The top ten safest states are over 90% white. I'm only speaking the truth, so please no personal attacks.
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Old 03-22-2008, 02:09 PM
 
Location: Tolland County- Northeastern CT
4,462 posts, read 7,959,184 times
Reputation: 1237
Quote:
Originally Posted by southernnaturelover View Post
The crime rate in the southern states is mostly a result of the high black population, not illegals. My town is half white/half black and my brother is a deputy, so I see it everyday. And no, it's not because of poverty. The top ten safest states are over 90% white. I'm only speaking the truth, so please no personal attacks.
Thanks for your personal perspective.
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Old 03-22-2008, 02:43 PM
 
105 posts, read 355,184 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by southernnaturelover View Post
The crime rate in the southern states is mostly a result of the high black population, not illegals. My town is half white/half black and my brother is a deputy, so I see it everyday. And no, it's not because of poverty. The top ten safest states are over 90% white. I'm only speaking the truth, so please no personal attacks.

In your state of Alabama, as in many other states, the arrest rate for Part I crimes, is disproportionately higher for blacks than it is for whites. But if you look at the 2006 crime stats for Alabama, you will notice that, in terms of raw numbers, more whites are arrested some of these crimes. The raw numbers for Part II crimes is also higher for whites in a number of instances. Please see the link below for one reference you might want to peruse. It's a 121-page pdf, so it'll take a while. You post is only partially true. I just wanted to share this with you because of the sweeping nature of your generalization based on the remarks of your deputy brother.


http://acjic.state.al.us/cia/2006_cia.pdf
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