[MrGompers]

Originally Posted by DigitalMilford

There are no answers because it is a policy designed to harass gay and trans people-- no more no less. Those who defend it are either blindly allegiant to extremist conservative dogma, or, like it because it acts as their proxy to harass the people they'd harass themselves were it socially acceptable.

Lets also not forget that George W Bush Jr wanted a constutional amendment to make marriage between a man and a woman only. We are only 15 yrs removed from that.

[BobNJ1960]

Originally Posted by JGBigGreen

Sexual education has been part of the curriculum- “subject matter” if you will” for many, many years. Should that be removed from the curriculum or are you fine with it as long as it doesn’t address LGQBGT+ issues?

I am ok with it, as long as it is taught in a clinical, impersonal manner. Not to include any feature of the teachers lives. No matter their orientation.

Not to be agenda driven.

[BobNJ1960]

Originally Posted by JayCT

What??? Are you really trying to say that those hundreds of thousands of retiree homes have no effect on Florida’s economy? Don’t be foolish. It’s the backbone of their economy and they built off it. Still are.

The backbone of Fl has been corporate growth. Retirees do not add to any state's economy. They do add to population and electoral college votes, but that is it.

[SteveM85]

Originally Posted by JayCT

You obviously didn’t see my comment about not being able to raise your kids in a bubble or about not wanting my kids lied to.

You also obviously know nothing about teaching, remember anything about school or are around inquisitive children.

That’s the problem with parenting today, people think that good parenting means molding the perfect child and damn reality and the rest of the world. Talk about closed mindedness.

I long ago realized that it’s not what my kids saw or were exposed to that mattered, it was our reaction to it. You could be upset and angry that they saw something that some people would think inappropriate or you could use it as a lesson for them to learn from. We chose the later and I have to that was clearly the best course. Maybe if more parents did that, our country’s teenage suicide rate, drug use and mental health would be a lot better. Jay

Let me clarify. I meant for elementary schools. Sex Ed has been in middle and HS (post puberty) for decades and that's fine and I believe that FL is fine with that too.
Most 5-9 year olds aren't thinking about sexual matters, they haven't reached puberty yet. If one happens to ask a teacher why there is a picture of her and another woman on the desk, that's fine too, the teacher can answer as they see fit.
Now on the other hand, and I do get it, there are many looney toon republicans out there that think public schools are out to force their kids to be gay or trans. They should know that that's near impossible. That's already been pre-determined at birth. There isn't anything anyone can do about it.

[WestRiverTraveler]

Originally Posted by SteveM85

Let me clarify. I meant for elementary schools. Sex Ed has been in middle and HS (post puberty) for decades and that's fine and I believe that FL is fine with that too.
Most 5-9 year olds aren't thinking about sexual matters, they haven't reached puberty yet. If one happens to ask a teacher why there is a picture of her and another woman on the desk, that's fine too, the teacher can answer as they see fit.
Now on the other hand, and I do get it, there are many looney toon republicans out there that think public schools are out to force their kids to be gay or trans. They should know that that's near impossible. That's already been pre-determined at birth. There isn't anything anyone can do about it.

Trans kids typically start to experience gender dysphoria in elementary school or younger. "Gender Eduction" for younger kids is simply acknowledging that some people have bodies that don't match how they feel. Don't tell me kids aren't aware of gender. I have a 5-yo. She's plenty aware of gender. Nobody is teaching explicit sex ed to 2nd graders. They might read a book with a same-sex family or trans character.

I've seen the outrage my my local FB page or teen romance novels that centered around gay and bisexual teens. No complaints about straight teen romances. Somehow the same story with LGBTQ+ characters is inappropriate, right? It's clear that to a chuck of the population, visibility is grooming. Please. Major uproar because a book about a trans person was on display in a middle school. Here's the mindset of these people. This is direct quote, with plenty of likes and loves:

"This is why the hospitals psych units are over flowing with young teens!! These kids are literally lining the ER hallways cuz there’s no rooms & they are so confused about their sexuality & their gender. They are the ones who try to find a group to fit in. They all don’t know who they are. These books Do Not Help, They Confuse. The kids know about these different lifestyles, stop trying to make them the “Norm”. They feel like they don’t fit in anywhere but want to stand out so they go to LGBTQ(ORFEJN..) and don’t feel good there and end up depressed & confused."

This people are completely unhinged. I'm going to support a politician who thinks like this? Wants to legislate this mindset? It's literally the opposite. LBGTQ+ suffer higher rates of depression exactly because they DON'T feel seen and accepted.

[7 Wishes]

Originally Posted by SteveM85

Most 5-9 year olds aren't thinking about sexual matters, they haven't reached puberty yet. If one happens to ask a teacher why there is a picture of her and another woman on the desk, that's fine too, the teacher can answer as they see fit.
Now on the other hand, and I do get it, there are many looney toon republicans out there that think public schools are out to force their kids to be gay or trans. They should know that that's near impossible. That's already been pre-determined at birth. There isn't anything anyone can do about it.

The problem is, "Don't Say Gay" can too be easily interpreted by a hyper-conservative judge to mean that a teache CAN'T answer in that situation and can lose their job or even face civil penalties or worse for just answering. It may even be interpreted as just having that picture on the desk as violating the law. That's the problem and one of the biggest problems I have with DeSantis. If it really were simply "no sex ed until 4th grade" (or even 6th or so), I'd be for it for just the reason you give here.

Originally Posted by WestRiverTraveler

Trans kids typically start to experience gender dysphoria in elementary school or younger. "Gender Eduction" for younger kids is simply acknowledging that some people have bodies that don't match how they feel. Don't tell me kids aren't aware of gender. I have a 5-yo. She's plenty aware of gender. Nobody is teaching explicit sex ed to 2nd graders. They might read a book with a same-sex family or trans character.

I've seen the outrage my my local FB page or teen romance novels that centered around gay and bisexual teens. No complaints about straight teen romances. Somehow the same story with LGBTQ+ characters is inappropriate, right? It's clear that to a chuck of the population, visibility is groom. Major uproar because a about about a trans person was on display in a middle school. Here's the mindset of these people. This is direct quote, with plenty of likes and loves:

"This is why the hospitals psych units are over flowing with young teens!! These kids are literally lining the ER hallways cuz there’s no rooms & they are so confused about their sexuality & their gender. They are the ones who try to find a group to fit in. They all don’t know who they are. These books Do Not Help, They Confuse. The kids know about these different lifestyles, stop trying to make them the “Norm”. They feel like they don’t fit in anywhere but want to stand out so they go to LGBTQ(ORFEJN..) and don’t feel good there and end up depressed & confused."

This people are completely unhinged. I'm going to support a politician who thinks like this? Wants to legislate this mindset? It's literally the opposite. LBGTQ+ suffer higher rates of depression exactly because they DON'T feel seen and accepted.

In my experience teaching in middle schools I find it becomes pretty obvious that a kid is trans by about 7th or 8th grade. To some extent gay too (which as someone else noted here, has usually nothing to do with trans), but only if they are what I'll call "outwardly obvious"; contrary to popular belief about "flamboyance" or "tomboyism", it's far from the truth in most cases and you can't always tell if someone is gay.

[JayCT]

Originally Posted by 7 Wishes

The problem is, "Don't Say Gay" can too be easily interpreted by a hyper-conservative judge to mean that a teache CAN'T answer in that situation and can lose their job or even face civil penalties or worse for just answering. It may even be interpreted as just having that picture on the desk as violating the law. That's the problem and one of the biggest problems I have with DeSantis. If it really were simply "no sex ed until 4th grade" (or even 6th or so), I'd be for it for just the reason you give here.



In my experience teaching in middle schools I find it becomes pretty obvious that a kid is trans by about 7th or 8th grade. To some extent gay too (which as someone else noted here, has usually nothing to do with trans), but only if they are what I'll call "outwardly obvious"; contrary to popular belief about "flamboyance" or "tomboyism", it's far from the truth in most cases and you can't always tell if someone is gay.

Exactly. And everyone knows that’s exactly how the Bill will be interpreted by the conservative courts in Florida. Remember, it’s still a southern state with conservative southern values at its heart. And you know how badly that is for people. Jay

[JayCT]

Originally Posted by BobNJ1960

The backbone of Fl has been corporate growth. Retirees do not add to any state's economy. They do add to population and electoral college votes, but that is it.

Really? This study from the Florida Department of Elder Affairs says otherwise.

Retirees are the main reason Florida has been able to survive without an income tax. It shows that each adult resident over age 65 contributes +$2,850 toward the states revenue, while those 18 to 64 contribute -$818. That proves the importance of retirees to the State and why it is the backbone of the state’s economy. They are why the state has low business taxes. Their influence, for better or worse, is very far reaching in the state. It’s pretty clear. Jay

https://www.bebr.ufl.edu/sites/defau...nal_7-8-13.pdf

[BobNJ1960]

Originally Posted by 7 Wishes

The problem is, "Don't Say Gay" can too be easily interpreted by a hyper-conservative judge to mean that a teache CAN'T answer in that situation and can lose their job or even face civil penalties or worse for just answering. It may even be interpreted as just having that picture on the desk as violating the law. That's the problem and one of the biggest problems I have with DeSantis. If it really were simply "no sex ed until 4th grade" (or even 6th or so), I'd be for it for just the reason you give here.



.

Perhaps we should require legislation to be written with precision.

[DigitalMilford]

Originally Posted by BobNJ1960

Perhaps we should require legislation to be written with precision.

I think the imprecision was the point in this case.