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The other aspect is regional authorities, commissions and agencies can add up. Towns don't always sewer systems or water, transit, retirement etc. I'd argue if MDC didn't exist Hartford would be Atlantis.
Regional authorities commissions and agencies don’t cost nearly the same as county governments and having county governments does not preclude you from having these as well. Most states still have both. Jay
Huh? European governments outsourced military spending largely to the USA during the cold War, that way they had enough to spend on social programming. They is plenty of corruption in the EU. Italy alone..
CT lower taxes? Compared to what? No limit on taxes or spending (mass does) anything is cheaper than ny
Except as I have shown numerous times here, taxes on comparable homes in comparable towns in Massachusetts are no cheaper than Connecticut. I’ve found that’s pretty much true in incorporated suburbs of major cities across the country. That includes Seattle, San Francisco, Los Angeles, Miami, Washington DC, among others. Then you have to consider areas where you must live in an community that has a Home Owner’s Association in order to have well maintained homes, parks, roads and amenities. Taxes in Connecticut are certainly cheaper than taxes in Westchester and Nassau and Suffolk Counties in New York and northern New Jersey. Jay
Except as I have shown numerous times here, taxes on comparable homes in comparable towns in Massachusetts are no cheaper than Connecticut. I’ve found that’s pretty much true in incorporated suburbs of major cities across the country. That includes Seattle, San Francisco, Los Angeles, Miami, Washington DC, among others. Then you have to consider areas where you must live in an community that has a Home Owner’s Association in order to have well maintained homes, parks, roads and amenities. Taxes in Connecticut are certainly cheaper than taxes in Westchester and Nassau and Suffolk Counties in New York and northern New Jersey. Jay
And I have shown you personally I pay much more relative to value vs my parents. I'm well aware of what a HOA and condo fees can be like. I considered buying in the past but that $300+ fee a month adds up. As mentioned my house is about 160K. My taxes are $4,100. My parents house is in mass and assessed value is 450K so generally a real price is 25-33% more. So let's assume 560K if it went on the market. Their taxes are $6,600. They pay more obviously but relative to value they pay much less.
NJ and NY have pretty high taxes overall I think we can all agree. Going to western NY is pretty much a $10 toll ever 30 miles. There's the tax rate and then there's value. Eastern Mass has higher values but lower taxes, western mass has lower values but higher taxes. A 450K house in eastern Mass might have a property tax of $4,000. In Longmeadow it's probably $10,000 (highest in the state) But at least in Mass you have a say if if you want an override or not. There's nothing wrong with having a vote if you want real local control vs control only by the people that are in office. If a town really wants to raise taxes for a new commuter rail station, community center, fire station they can do that if they want and if it passes. I've seen overrides pass (usually buildings) and overrides fail (extra staff). If you really want it then sell the idea and don't assume a blank check.
But you have to admit that if there's no laws regulating behavior that it doesn't matter how many layers of government there are. CT has higher gas taxes (including diesel) vs mass, slightly higher sales and it doesn't have a flat income tax. These add up. For quite some time they taxed pensions and yes they are solving that. Just like in Mass they used to have lifetime alimony and resulted in people paying for decades on end.
I'm not anti tax but I rather see things be simple to understand and show transparency. Show the process when you have to buy something and get the best price. It's like a kid asking for money from a parent. If you want money sure but tell me what it's for and how much you want.
We can see that many states in the northeast are much higher than other regions but mass isn't near the bottom. CT's value is less but the tax rate is more and the resulting bill is more. I have no idea how anyone can afford NJ given this data. Sales taxes out west are much more nearly on EU VAT levels. NH might be considered cheap until you see the state property taxes and corporate tax. Personally I rather pay more in property taxes than income.
And I have shown you personally I pay much more relative to value vs my parents. I'm well aware of what a HOA and condo fees can be like. I considered buying in the past but that $300+ fee a month adds up. As mentioned my house is about 160K. My taxes are $4,100. My parents house is in mass and assessed value is 450K so generally a real price is 25-33% more. So let's assume 560K if it went on the market. Their taxes are $6,600. They pay more obviously but relative to value they pay much less.
NJ and NY have pretty high taxes overall I think we can all agree. Going to western NY is pretty much a $10 toll ever 30 miles. There's the tax rate and then there's value. Eastern Mass has higher values but lower taxes, western mass has lower values but higher taxes. A 450K house in eastern Mass might have a property tax of $4,000. In Longmeadow it's probably $10,000 (highest in the state) But at least in Mass you have a say if if you want an override or not. There's nothing wrong with having a vote if you want real local control vs control only by the people that are in office. If a town really wants to raise taxes for a new commuter rail station, community center, fire station they can do that if they want and if it passes. I've seen overrides pass (usually buildings) and overrides fail (extra staff). If you really want it then sell the idea and don't assume a blank check.
But you have to admit that if there's no laws regulating behavior that it doesn't matter how many layers of government there are. CT has higher gas taxes (including diesel) vs mass, slightly higher sales and it doesn't have a flat income tax. These add up. For quite some time they taxed pensions and yes they are solving that. Just like in Mass they used to have lifetime alimony and resulted in people paying for decades on end.
I'm not anti tax but I rather see things be simple to understand and show transparency. Show the process when you have to buy something and get the best price. It's like a kid asking for money from a parent. If you want money sure but tell me what it's for and how much you want.
We can see that many states in the northeast are much higher than other regions but mass isn't near the bottom. CT's value is less but the tax rate is more and the resulting bill is more. I have no idea how anyone can afford NJ given this data. Sales taxes out west are much more nearly on EU VAT levels. NH might be considered cheap until you see the state property taxes and corporate tax. Personally I rather pay more in property taxes than income.
You only gave an anecdotal comparison but no actual proof. How do we know your parents home and location is comparable. I gave actual homes with taxes being paid to compare and from multiple towns around both states. The taxes were marginally different if at all.
Unlike Massachusetts, Connecticut is not compelled to add a law to limit tax increases. Over the years Massachusetts has had THOUSANDS of exemptions to Proposition 2 1/2 so the law really has no teeth. Granted those exemptions were usually because of major capital improvements or purchases but here in Connecticut towns hold referendums for similar purchases so it’s no different.
It’s true that Connecticut’s gas tax is higher than Massachusetts but we do not have tolls like they do. Also note that like just about every state, Massachusetts is considering raising it to raise more money. In recent years, Massachusetts roads have suffered. There was a time they were the best maintained in the nation. Now I can no longer say that. As my father always said “You get what you pay for”. Jay
But you have to admit that if there's no laws regulating behavior that it doesn't matter how many layers of government there are. CT has higher gas taxes (including diesel) vs mass, slightly higher sales and it doesn't have a flat income tax. These add up. For quite some time they taxed pensions and yes they are solving that. Just like in Mass they used to have lifetime alimony and resulted in people paying for decades on end.
I'm not anti tax but I rather see things be simple to understand and show transparency. Show the process when you have to buy something and get the best price. It's like a kid asking for money from a parent. If you want money sure but tell me what it's for and how much you want.
We can see that many states in the northeast are much higher than other regions but mass isn't near the bottom. CT's value is less but the tax rate is more and the resulting bill is more. I have no idea how anyone can afford NJ given this data. Sales taxes out west are much more nearly on EU VAT levels. NH might be considered cheap until you see the state property taxes and corporate tax. Personally I rather pay more in property taxes than income.
The problem is high tax rates combined with high home values. But you are right, it is not just how many layers of government, it is the behavior and spending of the government that drives taxes.
Back to the OP questioning county government, the problem is not necessarily county government. Delaware has strong county governments but still has among the lowest taxes in the Northeast. Most of the country in fact has stronger county government but still has lower property taxes then most of the Northeast.
Exemptions under prop 2 1/2 are overrides passed locally as a form of approval. How can you brag about local control of there no actual democracy? The law does have teeth because not all overrides pass and I can prove that.
As for tolls vs has taxes I don't mind tolls as it means it is incentizing more local business vs a wide regressive gas tax. If you want increases indexed to inflation that's fine but a 20-30 cent increase adds up especially to more rural areas worth large families.
Back to op I know towns that are affluent to they point where it feels like you are dealing with another state. Others are broke and it's nearly atrophy or anarchy depending on how you look at it. Communities don't have an "out" by ignoring things regardless of they are rural.
"Connecticut residents have good reason to be frustrated. It is one thing to see property tax burdens rise, another to see them rise faster than property values, and quite another altogether for property tax collections to rise even as statewide property values are in decline. It is little wonder that property tax limitations would have an appeal, especially given the examples offered by nearby New York and Massachusetts, where property tax limitations have demonstrated considerable success in constraining the rate of growth in property taxes."
" Outside Connecticut, 45 states and the District of Columbia have implemented some form of property tax limitation regime. Some of these strictly regulate property tax revenues while others, like Connecticut’s efforts, impose no meaningful constraints"
All I'm asking for is any limit. What's to really stop a 10% increase?
Exemptions under prop 2 1/2 are overrides passed locally as a form of approval. How can you brag about local control of there no actual democracy? The law does have teeth because not all overrides pass and I can prove that.
As for tolls vs has taxes I don't mind tolls as it means it is incentizing more local business vs a wide regressive gas tax. If you want increases indexed to inflation that's fine but a 20-30 cent increase adds up especially to more rural areas worth large families.
Back to op I know towns that are affluent to they point where it feels like you are dealing with another state. Others are broke and it's nearly atrophy or anarchy depending on how you look at it. Communities don't have an "out" by ignoring things regardless of they are rural.
"Connecticut residents have good reason to be frustrated. It is one thing to see property tax burdens rise, another to see them rise faster than property values, and quite another altogether for property tax collections to rise even as statewide property values are in decline. It is little wonder that property tax limitations would have an appeal, especially given the examples offered by nearby New York and Massachusetts, where property tax limitations have demonstrated considerable success in constraining the rate of growth in property taxes."
" Outside Connecticut, 45 states and the District of Columbia have implemented some form of property tax limitation regime. Some of these strictly regulate property tax revenues while others, like Connecticut’s efforts, impose no meaningful constraints"
All I'm asking for is any limit. What's to really stop a 10% increase?
Oh brother, I wouldn’t trust The Tax Foundation data. They aren’t very objective in their analyses and we’ve seen questionable data and conclusions from them. The problem with The Tax Foundation is they seem to have a political agenda. They definitely favor Republican led states over Democratic states. This throws out just about anything they conclude.
For years they put Maine in the No. 1 or No. 2 position for taxes. After years of criticism on their methodology, changes were made and Maine dropped to No. 15. Even the New York Times has stated their data is inaccurate so I believe nothing from them.
One problem Connecticut faces is that because our state has so many high income residents, it skews the rankings on taxes. Pretty much every state has a regressive tax structure. People with more money pay a higher percentage in taxes. Nothing wrong with that. Jay
Oh brother, I wouldn’t trust The Tax Foundation data. They aren’t very objective in their analyses and we’ve seen questionable data and conclusions from them. The problem with The Tax Foundation is they seem to have a political agenda. They definitely favor Republican led states over Democratic states. This throws out just about anything they conclude.
For years they put Maine in the No. 1 or No. 2 position for taxes. After years of criticism on their methodology, changes were made and Maine dropped to No. 15. Even the New York Times has stated their data is inaccurate so I believe nothing from them.
One problem Connecticut faces is that because our state has so many high income residents, it skews the rankings on taxes. Pretty much every state has a regressive tax structure. People with more money pay a higher percentage in taxes. Nothing wrong with that. Jay
The link posted above is about property taxes, not income taxes. Seeing the state’s wealthiest communities have insanely low property tax rates, I don’t see how the extreme wealth would skew their findings.
If anything, I’d see more the urban poor cities’ insanely high property tax rates skewing the chart.
That said, I do question how CT and RI are that nigh higher than NY. Although the NYC metro suburbs in NY are insane and aren’t consistent throughout NY state, even northern NY has pretty high taxes.
Last edited by kidyankee764; 07-29-2021 at 08:13 PM..
The link posted above is about property taxes, not income taxes. Seeing the state’s wealthiest communities have insanely low property tax rates, I don’t see how the extreme wealth would skew their findings.
If anything, I’d see more the urban poor cities’ insanely high property tax rates skewing the chart.
That said, I do question how CT and RI are that nigh higher than NY. Although the NYC metro suburbs in NY are insane and aren’t consistent throughout NY state, even northern NY has pretty high taxes.
Depends on the source but it seems in general Connecticut has a higher property tax rate, somewhere in the 2% range. New Jersey is even higher, highest in the nation.
States with the highest property taxes
1. New Jersey: $8,362 (2.49%)
2. Illinois: $4,419 (2.27%)
3. New Hampshire: $5,701 ( 2.18%)
4. Connecticut: $5,898 (2.14%)
5. Vermont: $4,329 (1.90%)
6. Wisconsin: $3,344 (1.85%)
7. Texas: $3,099 (1.80%)
8. Nebraska: $2,689 (1.73%)
9. New York: $5,407 (1.72%)
10. Rhode Island: $4,272 (1.63%)
I do not know about Connecticut but New York about 10 years ago instituted a 2%property tax cap which has helped somewhat to slow tax increases, if nothing else because it brings media coverage when local governments try to breech it. Sometimes voters have been voting down the additional tax increases.
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t-property-tax-limitations/
