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Old 11-12-2008, 06:27 PM
 
Location: U.S.
3,969 posts, read 6,527,927 times
Reputation: 4128

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Quote:
Originally Posted by MikefromCT View Post
If cheap, affordable housing were only the basis for determining this study, then maybe that would be a fair assessment in how they came up with these towns. But as somone who knows East Hartford well, I can say that while it does have some decent areas, overall it's not a town I would want to raise a family. Crime is an issue here, has been for some time. And right now the town is fighting tooth and nail to prevent another topless bar - excuse me, "gentlemen's club" - from opening in town. Which is unfortunate, because it seems the town is trying to bounce back. They have Rentschler Field which is great, and they cleaned up the area around Goodwin College near the water, but it seems every time they take a step forward there's something that happens that causes it to take two steps back.
Good assesment, I would add that crime is an issue in select areas, not the town as a whole. Also caution other towns too that the "gentlemens club" issue isn't unique to EH. What EH has is affordable real estate and some poorly thought out ordinances which is why this is happening here. All towns need to have some plan in place to locate these types of places to specific areas within the towns. You cannot dictate that no strip clubs are allowed in your town as courts will deem that unconstitutional. Just a warning in case anyone on here is involved with their town politics!
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Old 11-12-2008, 08:31 PM
 
2 posts, read 4,273 times
Reputation: 10
With such a negative attitude, its a good thing that you are a former W H resident. Subpar is by far not accurate as far as the public school system is concerned. I personaly have family members who graduated from WHHS and attended Boston college (Honors) and Uconn. Friends who live in Orange and send their children to Notre Dame (private) but still in WH!What does that say for great places to live. Mackrille, Seth Haley, Pagels and Washington Elementary schools are excellent. My children attend one of these schools, and I can say have had some excellent teachers. High taxes- we have trash pickup (bulk also), Sewer not septic, and a Fire department that isn't voluntary, there when you need them. Also, plenty of fairs, festivals, road races, antique car shows, beaches, museums, libraries, swimming pools, ice skating rink, new development, train station (wonder whose looking to relocate when that is finished, real estate will make a comeback in WH). Plenty of transportation options for seniors and general public. Restaurants aplenty. New hotels, grocery markets shops and best of all diversity!!!! That's where I want to live where we are ALL treated equally, 2009 Change is coming, embrace it.
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Old 11-12-2008, 10:17 PM
 
21,517 posts, read 30,922,140 times
Reputation: 9600
I don't think West Haven is the best place to raise children in CT but I do think that for the money, WH is quite a bargain. The schools are not BAD, they are average - any kid who works hard in school will succeed. I have found that the districts which are often discussed negatively on this board offer many more programs than the suburban districts said to be so wonderful. West Haven is one of them, as is Norwalk High and Danbury schools. Very diverse districts where, I think, talented and gifted students have an advantage over isolated, sheltered kids where standardized testing scores are above average.
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Old 11-13-2008, 04:15 PM
 
132 posts, read 330,067 times
Reputation: 97
I have been a lurker here for some time now. We just moved to CT from Atlanta's suburbs (Decatur) to be near family in Mass and NJ. We used city-data to find our home and bought in a pricier town due to the negativity posted regarding places like West Haven, Ansonia, Naugatuck. and ''backwards'' Beacon Falls. We immediately checked those towns off the list and spent our short time looking at homes in very expensive towns ... we figured the areas that posters discussed in a negative manner were either horrific, crime-ridden areas or hillbilly towns where people had no education or contact with the outside world.

I have quite a newsflash for you longtime CT residents ... most areas in the USA and Canada don't offer much in the way of culture or have residents who have the money to expand their horizons. Cities like West Haven and Ansonia are most definitely not representative of most ''ghetto'' USA towns and from my experiences have a more educated population than the vast majority of American cities.

I am a native New Englander but had little knowledge of CT when we arrived. Never before have I resided in an area that is so segregated ... nor have I lived in an area where people lift their nose to a nearby community that is MIDDLE CLASS instead of an upper class rural suburb. Speak of territorialism.

We have two kids so schools were an issue, and West Haven's schools perform about the same as some districts in Atlanta's more desirable neighborhoods. Is it color that people have an issue with? (We are white) ... Is it access to drugs? Nix that, as they are just as prevalent (if not more so) in suburban districts where the kids are wealthy. In addition, standardized testing has nothing to do with a district's quality. I have been an educator for fifteen years and have seen TAG students do worse on SATs or EOCTs than some wealthier students who are in lower level courses. Why? Money. It doesn't make one more intelligent, thus should never be used as the criteria to rank schools, public or private.

I was shocked and irritated with myself that I decided to take the advice of some posters (by no means everyone) and spend twice as much on a home, instead of spending a little more time searching for an affordable city. We love our town and about half of the people in it, but we probably would have ended up in Ansonia had we known the small city had a low crime rate.

People often say that CT residents are elitist, but it seems that the elitist attitude is directed at CT's very few blue-collar towns which represents the vast majority of America. Rural Connecticut: your town is no better than the one next door.
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Old 11-13-2008, 06:30 PM
 
Location: U.S.
3,969 posts, read 6,527,927 times
Reputation: 4128
Quote:
Originally Posted by aroundthecorner059 View Post
I have been a lurker here for some time now. We just moved to CT from Atlanta's suburbs (Decatur) to be near family in Mass and NJ. We used city-data to find our home and bought in a pricier town due to the negativity posted regarding places like West Haven, Ansonia, Naugatuck. and ''backwards'' Beacon Falls. We immediately checked those towns off the list and spent our short time looking at homes in very expensive towns ... we figured the areas that posters discussed in a negative manner were either horrific, crime-ridden areas or hillbilly towns where people had no education or contact with the outside world.

I have quite a newsflash for you longtime CT residents ... most areas in the USA and Canada don't offer much in the way of culture or have residents who have the money to expand their horizons. Cities like West Haven and Ansonia are most definitely not representative of most ''ghetto'' USA towns and from my experiences have a more educated population than the vast majority of American cities.

I am a native New Englander but had little knowledge of CT when we arrived. Never before have I resided in an area that is so segregated ... nor have I lived in an area where people lift their nose to a nearby community that is MIDDLE CLASS instead of an upper class rural suburb. Speak of territorialism.

We have two kids so schools were an issue, and West Haven's schools perform about the same as some districts in Atlanta's more desirable neighborhoods. Is it color that people have an issue with? (We are white) ... Is it access to drugs? Nix that, as they are just as prevalent (if not more so) in suburban districts where the kids are wealthy. In addition, standardized testing has nothing to do with a district's quality. I have been an educator for fifteen years and have seen TAG students do worse on SATs or EOCTs than some wealthier students who are in lower level courses. Why? Money. It doesn't make one more intelligent, thus should never be used as the criteria to rank schools, public or private.

I was shocked and irritated with myself that I decided to take the advice of some posters (by no means everyone) and spend twice as much on a home, instead of spending a little more time searching for an affordable city. We love our town and about half of the people in it, but we probably would have ended up in Ansonia had we known the small city had a low crime rate.

People often say that CT residents are elitist, but it seems that the elitist attitude is directed at CT's very few blue-collar towns which represents the vast majority of America. Rural Connecticut: your town is no better than the one next door.
Best post I have seen in a while. Rep points coming your way...
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Old 11-13-2008, 09:31 PM
 
Location: Central CT, sometimes FL and NH.
4,476 posts, read 6,728,692 times
Reputation: 5883
Jay,

As a teacher who has taught for 15 years in Manchester and Bristol I can attest that the test scores only tell a small part of the story especially if you are not looking at District Reference Groups or students receiving free and reduced lunches.

To get a truer picture you need to compare apples to apples. For example. Let's look at students reaching goal in my city, Bristol vs. Glastonbury vs the state average in Grade 6 Mathematics.

Bristol: Free and Reduced students at Goal 46.6%(262) Non Free and Reduced at Goal 78.0% (445)

Glastonbury Free and Reduced at Goal 56.0% (25) Non Free and Reduced at Goal 88.6% (519)

State average (not disaggregated) 66.6%

The numbers in parentheses represent the number of students in that group. As you can see Bristol has 262 (37.1%) of its students receiving free and reduced lunches, a statistic related to poverty, and a factor that has been proven to negatively impact academic performance whereas, Glastonbury has only 25 students (4.6%) receiving free and reduced lunches.

The 62.9% of the students who are not in the identified group in Bristol are at 78%, a percentage 12 points above the state average and only a little more than 10 points below Glastonbury, a high performing district. In Bristol's case the large number of students requiring intervention programs does consume considerably more available resources (federally mandated) than in the case of Glastonbury that has only 25 students in the target group.

Both communities have teachers with similar high quality credentials and experience, yet it is a proven fact that teaching in a community with a higher number of students receiving free and reduced lunches presents additional challenges.

The District Reference Group gives a comparison of performance among different communities that share key common demographics. Therefore, a community like Bristol would not be compared to Glastonbury but communities like Hamden, Middletown, and Manchester among other. In Bristol's case it is top performing in nearly every category in its DRG. West Haven's DRG (H) includes: Ansonia, Danbury, Derby, East Hartford, Meriden, Norwalk, Norwich, and Stamford.

There also is considerable variation in scores from grade to grade and year to year. They provide some useful data but need to be looked at with caution about making generalizations. The scores also do not compare a specific group of students from year to year but last year's group of students compared to this year's group. Each year's group can vary considerably, especially if the number of students is small.

The long and short of it is that one does not have to move to a district with high average test scores to receive a high quality education. Communities like Bristol and West Haven provide opportunities for students from a wide range of social and economic backgrounds to reach a high level of achievement.

IMHO, it would be far worse for parents to have to spend more time away from home working to support living in a more costly community than choosing a more modest community that affords one the opportunity to have one parent stay home, work fewer hours, or part-time allowing them to spend more time with their children nurturing their development, providing guidance, and being less stressed out.

Last edited by Lincolnian; 11-13-2008 at 09:58 PM..
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Old 11-13-2008, 09:35 PM
 
21,517 posts, read 30,922,140 times
Reputation: 9600
Quote:
Originally Posted by aroundthecorner059 View Post
I have been a lurker here for some time now. We just moved to CT from Atlanta's suburbs (Decatur) to be near family in Mass and NJ. We used city-data to find our home and bought in a pricier town due to the negativity posted regarding places like West Haven, Ansonia, Naugatuck. and ''backwards'' Beacon Falls. We immediately checked those towns off the list and spent our short time looking at homes in very expensive towns ... we figured the areas that posters discussed in a negative manner were either horrific, crime-ridden areas or hillbilly towns where people had no education or contact with the outside world.

I have quite a newsflash for you longtime CT residents ... most areas in the USA and Canada don't offer much in the way of culture or have residents who have the money to expand their horizons. Cities like West Haven and Ansonia are most definitely not representative of most ''ghetto'' USA towns and from my experiences have a more educated population than the vast majority of American cities.

I am a native New Englander but had little knowledge of CT when we arrived. Never before have I resided in an area that is so segregated ... nor have I lived in an area where people lift their nose to a nearby community that is MIDDLE CLASS instead of an upper class rural suburb. Speak of territorialism.

We have two kids so schools were an issue, and West Haven's schools perform about the same as some districts in Atlanta's more desirable neighborhoods. Is it color that people have an issue with? (We are white) ... Is it access to drugs? Nix that, as they are just as prevalent (if not more so) in suburban districts where the kids are wealthy. In addition, standardized testing has nothing to do with a district's quality. I have been an educator for fifteen years and have seen TAG students do worse on SATs or EOCTs than some wealthier students who are in lower level courses. Why? Money. It doesn't make one more intelligent, thus should never be used as the criteria to rank schools, public or private.

I was shocked and irritated with myself that I decided to take the advice of some posters (by no means everyone) and spend twice as much on a home, instead of spending a little more time searching for an affordable city. We love our town and about half of the people in it, but we probably would have ended up in Ansonia had we known the small city had a low crime rate.

People often say that CT residents are elitist, but it seems that the elitist attitude is directed at CT's very few blue-collar towns which represents the vast majority of America. Rural Connecticut: your town is no better than the one next door.
I agree - very good post.
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Old 11-14-2008, 01:02 PM
 
Location: Connecticut
34,637 posts, read 56,391,795 times
Reputation: 11150
I agree that standardized test scores do not tell the whole story but I also ask "what else do we have to tell the difference". For lack of better information, this is all we have to go on.

I also agree with aroundthecorner059 that many of the towns indicated in their post have better schools than other areas of the country, but the article is called "Best Places to Raise Kids" and for most parents education is a top priority. Someone reading this article will think this is a the best Connecticut has to offer but they would be wrong if their primary criteria is education. I am not saying that the education is bad, but it is not the best either. Jay
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Old 11-14-2008, 02:27 PM
 
Location: U.S.
3,969 posts, read 6,527,927 times
Reputation: 4128
Quote:
Originally Posted by JayCT View Post
I agree that standardized test scores do not tell the whole story but I also ask "what else do we have to tell the difference". For lack of better information, this is all we have to go on.

I also agree with aroundthecorner059 that many of the towns indicated in their post have better schools than other areas of the country, but the article is called "Best Places to Raise Kids" and for most parents education is a top priority. Someone reading this article will think this is a the best Connecticut has to offer but they would be wrong if their primary criteria is education. I am not saying that the education is bad, but it is not the best either. Jay
So the actual education is better in one town than another? Or is the difference really the makeup of the student population? Thats the problem, people can't seem to differentiate the two - or at least no one wants to talk about it.
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Old 11-14-2008, 03:32 PM
 
132 posts, read 330,067 times
Reputation: 97
Exactly, Uconn97!

That is the difficulty with school rankings. Instead of basing their findings on the in-classroom quality, they are considering results of standardized tests that have been proven by numerous scholarly studies to lack accuracy.

The problem is not with the educators, or the district as a whole. A look at stats for CT show that the number of teachers with a PhD is pretty similar for all communities in the state (much higher than in GA). This makes it evident that the districts meeting certain requirements are providing what a given state (in this case, CT) feels is a well rounded education. All schools must keep accreditation therefore must offer ''rigorous'' curriculums to keep up with state standards. There is no denying that.

How do we rank schools, one asks? Since standardized testing is not accurate (how many of us know a straight A student who did poorer on the SAT than a kid with a C average?) ... we can't rank districts this way. Drop-out rates? That's flawed as well because it has nothing to do with in-classroom curriculum and educator quality. Should we rank them by income, so your kids can be around students of a similar socio-economic background who can afford that SAT tutor? This is certainly how most of you view it in CT. Why do you think the vast majority of high schools stopped ranking students in each grade level? It's because the rankings, while numerically correct, painted a very narrow picture of each student, yet when looked at, told those analyzing a student's performance one of three things: Good student, average student, or poor student. Our students, even the slackers, deserve more. Might I suggest to JayCT and others that you visit and meet with educators in a school before you paint a town or community with such a wide brush. I am positive that you would find teachers and administrators whom are well-educated and have dedication, which sounds to me like it would take you by surprise.

It is not, and I repeat not, the district's fault if the majority of the student body cannot speak English, or if there is a severe lack of parental involvement that can negatively affect the education of that one child. I would prefer that my children attend school with other students of a different ethnicity, that way they know what life is like outside of their all white, affluent enclave.

When people ask about good schools in CT, they may as well ask which communities have a significant affluent caucasion population - most of these people can care less about curriculum and courses of advanced learning! (Note: I said most, not all). I think it is fair to say that people have alternative reasons in regards to why they refuse to send their child to a certain district, yet they would never, ever admit it. I am not directing that at anyone on city-data, but people in general who reside in this state. It's all about money here, even if you don't realize it.

Last edited by aroundthecorner059; 11-14-2008 at 03:50 PM..
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