[kidyankee764]

Originally Posted by iTsLiKeAnEgG

There are about a million things wrong with you and your post but I'll start with the easy ones. Who's jobs are they taking? Do you want to be a janitor or a cook at a Chinese restaurant? If you want those jobs so badly then blame small business owners and who ever is in charge of hiring. How are they disgusting? Are you entering their homes/apartments to measure the quality of their surroundings? The most "disgusting", poorly educated and detrimental human beings I have ever met have all been Americans. Imagine that.

You must not be familiar with the term "working class". There are a TON of Americans, especially in today's economic times, that would kill to be a janitor for some extra $$. A cook at a Chinese restaurant? Why the heck not, if I were a college kid who wanted to be a chef (and BTW - there are no illegal Chinese restaurant cooks in CT, from what I've seen). Blame small business owners? Absolutely, and there are many more to blame as well, such as people like yourself who make excuses which allows this issue to continue.

As for being "disgusting", I lived about 4 feet from five other apartments housing a ton of illegals in each one. The smell was putrid. My bedroom window looked into theirs. Sleeping bags in the kitchen - how's that for disgusting?

As for your last sentence, well, it must be a California thing.

[JViello]

I'm on 45 minutes sleep in 2 days so bear with me...lots has been said and I can quote multiple posts, so in instead please allow me to get on the soapbox for a minute.

1. Illegals committing crimes disproportionate to society. Well, I think the term "illegal" speaks for itself. The very fact that folks are willing to "sneak" across the border and "risk" XYZ tells me they are not the best candidates and in fact may very well be the people we do NOT want in our country.

Point in case. Every single central American I have hired has papers of some sort saying they are "legal". I love them. No really. I love them like family. They are hard working people, wish for a better life and remind me of what MY family came here for and how they lived. The key work is they are LEGAL. They have to jump through a lot of hoops, but do so to follow the law. IMHO that means, they will NOT be out driving drunk, they DO respect our "way of life", they do pay their bills etc etc.

The illegals DO NOT. They are IMO "banditos".

The problem lies in our immigration system. I know because I see the struggle many of the "good" people go through just to try and become citizens. IT SUCKS.

I have a guy, honest hard working person, family man who has his child (born here) in a local catholic school who wishes NOTHING more than to be a citizen. He's been trying for *8* years. No lie. *8* years.

That's wrong.

2. Trying to say our ancestors from Europe did the "same thing". BULLCRAP.

The problem then was that they simply could NOT process all the people properly. WOP - With Out Paper. Right. Like the stupid "grease ball" just walked on water and/or swam here from Italy. No. They got on a boat, the boat was allowed in harbor, they went to the "office" and they were not processed "properly". That's why they had "no papers". It's not the same as someone just walking across the border because "f it, why not, they pay better in the states".

Okay, I'm beat...having some food and going to bed. Gnight.

P.S. Did I mention that I got hit with a "self employment tax" to the tune of 11K this year just because I work for myself? No other reason...that's why I'm on no sleep, I have to make up oh...$1000 a month now, but that's another thread.

[goldenband]

Tetto, like I said, I agree that we need to keep control of our borders, but mass deportations are completely impossible. They'd lead to all-out war, make lasting enemies of a sizeable chunk of the population, and basically push our country towards becoming a police state. It's just not gonna happen.

As for "tearing America down", I feel that the highest form of patriotism is to want America to live up to its own principles, and to hold it to those principles at all times. Those who say "my country, right or wrong" aren't patriots; they're tribalists.

[goldenband]

Again, JViello, all I can say (regarding "illegals") is that I'd do the same thing in their position. Remember, while it's a criminal offense if you're caught trying to sneak in, it's only a civil offense once you're here. Strange as it may seem, I think it's actually the right policy.

Also, "ancestors from Europe" doesn't include the Chinese I mentioned. And I think it's a big misrepresentation to say that illegals come into this country as casually as you suggest ; you might consider seeing the movie El Norte sometime.

I agree that legal immigration in this country is labyrinthine, bureaucratic, and a total mess!

[Tetto]

I can appreciate your points, but you come off like an apologist for all of Americas past "wrongs". We arent perfect, but this "soft" invasion cannot be tolerated any more. As other people have said, we pay for the schooling, medical care, etc. it can't be sustained. Surely you can see that?

[goldenband]

There are definitely limits to how many we can absorb, sure. Like I said earlier, I think the burden is on us to control our borders, not on them to stay out. I think it's all to the good to have tightly controlled, well-staffed border checkpoints, and would certainly endorse increased funding to that end.

More generally, I think we need to understand how this mess happened, if we want to get ourselves out of it. One of the big factors is the economic/political situation down there, which we did a lot to exacerbate in the name of insuring a steady supply of cheap goods (like fruit) for our consumer markets. To put it crudely, if we want people to stay in their countries, we may have to start paying $1.99/lb. for our bananas.

[Stratford, Ct. Resident]

Originally Posted by goldenband

One of the big factors is the economic/political situation down there, which we did a lot to exacerbate in the name of insuring a steady supply of cheap goods (like fruit) for our consumer markets. To put it crudely, if we want people to stay in their countries, we may have to start paying $1.99/lb. for our bananas.

I don't agree with that sentiment. These illegal aliens are stealing jobs from legal citizens because they are willing to take a substandard wage. If they were not here to steal the jobs, the employer would be forced to adequately compensate the legal citizen that is performing the work. And if the person on the bottom of the wage chain gets a boost, people above them will likely get one as well.

It's worth the $1.99/lb. if it means that legal citizens won't have jobs stolen out from under them, if it means we won't have to pay for all of the social services for illegals, if it means wages won't be artificially suppressed due to the availability of vulnerable/exploitable illegals, if it means.............

[goldenband]

I'm not sure why you don't agree, since I more or less agree with everything you just posted...?

[kidyankee764]

Originally Posted by goldenband

Kidyankee764, did you read the Courant article I linked? There's a fair bit of research saying that illegals pay a great deal into the tax system on which they never collect. I'm not saying it's a 1:1 ratio, but it's more complicated than just "they take and don't pay".

I did read the [very liberal] article - it localizes the problem to mostly Willimantic, where it seems they work mostly on farms. In Danbury, these people work at nearly all fast food places, as busboys, landscapers, etc. Forged documentation and illegal immigration in Danbury have taken such a massive amount of jobs that it seems like entry level jobs pay less than other areas of western CT. Some do pay a small portion of taxes, but then there are a ton who stand around the Spring Street/Main Street area waiting to do odd jobs for businesses and homeowners. So there are two issues as far as I'm concerned - forged documentation and no documentation.

'Taxpayers footing the bills for illegal immigrants

by News Channel 8's Alan Cohn
Posted Nov. 13, 2007
10:00 PM

Danbury (WTNH) _ A Team 8 investigation has uncovered information about the cost of caring for illegal immigrants at Danbury Hospital.

Moderator cut: copyright issues

[goldenband]

I'm bemused by your characterization of the Courant article -- particularly after you posted the above, which uses deliberately loaded phrases like "your tax dollars" and quotes the AIIG of Danbury, who are hardly unbiased! Are you calling it "very liberal" because you honestly think it's using biased language and methodology?

(Frankly I'd rather read something in the style of the Courant article, but written from a conservative point of view, than an avowedly liberal article in the style of what you posted...I have a distaste for that kind of newsflash, righteous-indignation journalism, because whatever side it's on, it's seldom interested in telling the truth.)

Anyway, I'm not sure why you're so angry at illegal immigrants in Danbury, when it seems the real culprits would seem to be...the citizens of Danbury, who are apparently happy to pay someone four bucks an hour (or whatever) to do their landscaping. Surely they have some responsibility as well, as does everyone in this country -- employers, consumers, homeowners -- who's more than happy to reap the benefits of dirt-cheap labor.