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Let's let a little air out of the tires on both sides of the argument,
Mandela, like Ghandi, was a man of principle who confronted, and brought down. a system of organized subjugation; but he had allies within his camp who sunk to some very vicious tactics.
And it also needs to be remembered that apartheid (Germanic word, anybody notice?) was a creation of the Boers -- and their principal tool was the Civil Service, state-run "enterprises", and labor unions. -- the same vehicles used by the work-a-day activist everywhere. The best-educated South Africans tended to side with the reformers.
South Africa has the best-developed infrastructure on the African continent, and the power-structure which attempted to freeze it in place has been broken. What remains to be done will be a severe test of parliamentary pluralism.
Somehow, so far, it has worked out fairly smoothly. But let's never forget that some people played a very dirty game. The actions of those few, and the Radical/Marxist venom they spewed, should not be swept conveniently under the rug by the Pretty People who seek to manage our opinions.
Last edited by 2nd trick op; 12-06-2013 at 04:35 PM..
Let's let a little air out of the tires on both sides of the argument,
Mandela, like Ghandi, was a man of principle who confronted, and brought down. a system of organized subjugation; but he had allies within his camp who sunk to some very vicious tactics.
And it also needs to be remembered that apartheid (Germanic word, anybody notice?) was a creation of the Boers -- and their principal tool was the Civil Service, state-run "enterprises", and labor unions. -- the same vehicles used by the work-a-day activist everywhere. The best-educated South Africans tended to side with the reformers.
South Africa has the best-developed infrastructure on the African continent, and the power-structure which attempted to freeze it in place has been broken. What remains to be done will be a severe test of parliamentary pluralism.
Somehow, so far, it has worked out fairly smoothly. But let's never forget that some people played a very dirty game. The actions of those few, and the Radical/Marxist venom they spewed, should not be swept conveniently under the rug by the Pretty People who seek to manage our opinions.
Indeed the simple "black and white cartoon" (pun intended) history of the RSA that so many carry around in their heads is simply not accruate. The two white "tribes"--Afrikaners and English--fought each other bitterly, and so did various black tribes fight bitterly with each other.
Let's let a little air out of the tires on both sides of the argument,
Not really.
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Mandela, like Ghandi, was a man of principle who confronted, and brought down. a system of organized subjugation; but he had allies within his camp who sunk to some very vicious tactics.
Abject oppression has a way of bringing out the worst in people. So where does the blame still lie, those who acted atrociously or those who gave them no other recourse?
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What remains to be done will be a severe test of parliamentary pluralism.
At least now it has that opportunity.
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The Radical/Marxist venom they spewed, should not be swept conveniently under the rug by the Pretty People who seek to manage our opinions.
Oh puleeze, I doubt seriously that the vastly undereducated toughs of Soweto and other townships who actually necklessed their fellows could quote you a single line from what Marx or any other Marxist might have ever written. Even in our own revolution, loyalist were treated in the most despicable manner. No the didn't throw tires (yet to be invented) over their victims heads and light them on fire, but hangings, tar and feathering weren't exactly unheard.
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Originally Posted by NickB1967
Indeed the simple "black and white cartoon" (pun intended) history of the RSA that so many carry around in their heads is simply not accruate.
Yes I suppose that Apartheid only separated some Africans from some Europeans.
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The two white "tribes"--Afrikaners and English--fought each other bitterly,
Yes a lofty and high minded struggle over who would benefit from the spoils of colonialism.
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and so did various black tribes fight bitterly with each other.
Yes indeed they did BUT in the struggle against Apartheid which party represented a multi-racial, multi-ethnic, and multi-tribal front against the government of South Africa. Mandela representing the ANC garnered 62% of the vote, his able opponent and triable leader of the Zulu's Mangosuthu Buthelezi representing the Inkatha Freedom Party didn't even receive a vote total equal to the percentage of Zulu's in South Africa. And I hasten to add that the IFP which slit away from the ANC in 1979 was encourage to do so by none other than Oliver Tambo, then President of the ANC!
Please in the future don't try to pretend some greater knowledge of South Africa and the struggle against Apartheid when it doesn't exist.
Marxism is a bottom-of-the-barrel philosophy -- a "race to the bottom" of the ability to think. As such "extermination" is not too strong a term to recommend as a remedy.
Marxism is a bottom-of-the-barrel philosophy -- a "race to the bottom" of the ability to think. As such "extermination" is not too strong a term to recommend as a remedy.
I don't recall this being a thread about Marxism. So perhaps if you would like to discuss the topic of Marx, socialism or communism perhaps you should start your own thread instead of trying to hijack this one.
Aparthied, Nazism and Marxism are all cut from the same cloth -- an attempt to impose a particular order upon the free exchange of both human opinion and commerce.
If Nelson Mandela is to be honored as the man who put an end to apartheid, I have no problem with it; but the excesses of some who supposedly aligned themselves with him can't be ignored. Like the Nazis, the people who orchestrated the use of the "necklace" and similar brutalities need to be identified, punished, and stigmatized for the rest of their days.
The common thread between Hamas/Hezbollah, the IRA, and all the other ragged fringe groups which resort to violence and terrorism is a resentment and hostility toward an economic system they blame for their troubles. They fail to understand that the power the seek is often the cause of their misery, and that entrepreneurship within the African community (the taxis and jitneys that put a big dent into the commuter rail systems is one example with which I'm familiar) was a big factor in undercutting the power of the De Klerk government.
Only locally, people I know and have interacted with on a regular basis. To worship someone who had no direct effect on my life and who I never met, seems silly.
Good guess. But then I'd guess that most of the Caucasian Americans would also fall into this group. What's your point?
What's my point? Compassion and empathy are not in your vocabulary are they? Guess you are unable to put yourself into the shoes of people who were treated like **** due to the colour of their skin. If you could you would understand why so many millions see Mandela as a hero.
Guess all that goes over your head. Never mind.
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Compassion and empathy are not in your vocabulary are they? Guess you are unable to put yourself into the shoes of people who were treated like **** due to the colour of their skin. If you could you would understand why so many millions see Mandela as a hero. 
