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This is now way off topic. If people are going to turn it into a thread about what we should do with refugees, or how much they cost, move it to P&OC where it belongs. It was supposed to be about whether the danger is worse where they are now or on the journey to make it here, I thought.
The picture is quite a bit more muddied than ("Give us your tired, your poor, etc.)
First, the immigrants of yore came here legally, were tested for contagious diseases and quarantined or sent back if they were found to have the same, and came here to assimilate....
Many, surely most, of the illegal "immigrants" crossing the Mexican border, Mexican AND Central American, are surely good people, BUT there is a legal way to do it. We are simply overwhelmed now in all ways with illegals from Central America, who are NOT vetted for disease, contagious or not, and, even worse, are NOT vetted for criminal backgrounds, and are living amongst us in our own cities.
Yes, there are many children and women, but that indeed is the slice we see in the pics...there are also many adult males, who are the main source of aforesaid illegals from central america......many of them, like the pic I posted at the top of a Guatamalan US street gang, could easily slip right past the cracks of our law enforcement, and could conceivably be coming back over after being repatriated...
It is a shame on all counts.....for the good, and even the bad folks coming over(and a huge number ARE either past, current, or future gang members..either they were in the country of origin, or will join one, after lack of job opportunities creates the same vacuum as the magnet that pulls our own US citizens to the same in urban ghettos)....
We have NO answers for our OWN crime and poverty regards our OWN US citizens......so, regardless of intent, how, logistically, per current budgets for services, can we handle an influx of hundreds of thousands of new residents who will need these same services?
There will be a crowding out affect.....with only so much to go around, and school budgets cut back, each new arrival who claims those benefits will crowd out someone who needs the same that is a current US citizen.....
Or, perhaps I am wrong......
Perhaps we ARE the world's policeman, nanny state, mommy, teet, cornicopia, horn of plenty, etc......
OR, perhaps we are just selfish, and should completely drop all definitions that connote US citizenship.....call the entire world US citizens, with all the rights and benefits they entail, and we can end world poverty, war, and misunderstanding in one fell swoop...
I am not sure who SHOULD get what....
I am not sure who is entitled to anything mandated by the US Gov't anymore, nor who SHOULD pay for the same..
Is that a better question? Who should pay for all this?
Should it come out of the social security fund? Should we just jack up our national debt higher?
How about we disband the US Military, disband the border patrol, and use all those funds to provide benefits and refuge to all of central and south american, as well as southeast asia and sub saharan Africa
And hope we don't get invaded or taken over by China and or Russia/Middle East in the process?
See, this is where a logically absurd argument of "why can't we harbor everyone" runs its course, and degenerates into nonsense...
With all due respect Mr Willy, we have about 30 million illegals' in this country. Tell me when we had 30 million in the country at the country's inception? Also, when our ancestors came here they learned the language, loved the country and worked 2 and 3 jobs to provide for themselves. These people are coming here knowing they will not have to work and will get welfare, food stamps, medical, housing and we have AMERICANS hungry and homeless. We are not in the position to pay for more than we already are now.
53 % of people in the country are getting assistance from the tax payer. 47% work but how many of those aren't paying taxes. So it shifts the burden on us.
We are the ONLY country that people can pour over the border and be welcomed and taken care of for the rest of their lives. It's too bad we don't do that for Seniors and Vets.
Any economist will tell you, that we can't keep doing this. This economy cannot carry this burden.
It has nothing to do with closed minds. Actually it is the closed minds that are saying we can afford this.
This is not political. I didn't see anyone talk about a party affiliation, I see it as an American Security issue.
First, illegal, and what is occurring in this case are two different things. I don't agree with illegals getting licenses, and I agree with Jan Brewer of AZ. Apples and oranges to the topic at hand.
Second, I'm retired from the California construction industry, and I'm never meet a lazy immigrant from south of our border, but have fired lazy American born who feel entitled.
Third, these posts come straight out the Fox News handbook. A report about Bengazi is about to be released absolving the Obama administration, and we need a new argument. Both parties are slinging BS over this one.
Sort them out, and those with gang affiliation go back and put the kids into foster care.
I Do not think this is a win win for either party..
Just sad....no real answers on either end....
and the verdict is, per any problem....
"Can't run and hide from your problems....and countries, writ large, can'r run away from them as well"
Wherever you go, there you are....with no more skills than the place from whence one came.....and you have
simply dumped your problems and sperm donor kids(the question..where are the fathers?) onto someone else..
A international game of hot potato is all..or call it "Kick the Can"...over the border, that is..lol
Not all have assimilated. My brothers girlfriend is from Taiwan and came in the late 70's. She has never gained a good command of our language, because she lives in SF and can speak her native tongue. The boys on the Northwestern on the Deadliest Catch all speak fluent Norwegian. My Grandfather came here from Norway in 1903 and would only allow English in his house. My point is that it is not just the Latino culture doing this.
I think if properly done we can assimilate these deserving refugees, and send the trash back!
I Do not think this is a win win for either party..
Just sad....no real answers on either end....
and the verdict is, per any problem....
"Can't run and hide from your problems....and countries, writ large, can'r run away from them as well"
Wherever you go, there you are....with no more skills than the place from whence one came.....and you have
simply dumped your problems and sperm donor kids(the question..where are the fathers?) onto someone else..
A international game of hot potato is all..or call it "Kick the Can"...over the border, that is..lol
I am inclined to agree that we cannot afford to import any more poverty. We simply do not have the resources.
I think the humane thing to do would be to repatriate these kids back to their families in their home countries and somehow provide
enough information / propaganda to discourage people from sending their children over the border alone in the first place.
Agreed that their lives here would probably be touched by gangs and violence.
You have to love closed minded ideals, and the fear used to scare the sheep. Our country has been welcoming immigrants since its inception. The above post is almost perfect rhetoric in an election year about an issue that was passed by the party the poster supports. Take action in congress and get the job done then, and don't try and blame your mistakes on others.
I like the idea that we should now turn people away. It reminds me of the no growth advocates where I lived in California. Now that I'm here we shouldn't build anymore houses. Only in this case we want to limit who we allow in. Of course we shouldn't allow criminals in like the Italian, Irish, Russian, Asian, and Muslim mafia like we've done for more than 100 years.
This is just another political issue that shouldn't be in this forum.
I think there is a huge difference between the many foreign families that immigrated into the US 3 or 4 generations ago vs the illegal border crossings of abandoned children we are seeing now.
I had family come across thru Ellis Island from Italy, and family that came from Mexico. Both sides wanted to stake their claim here in the US and were happy to assimilate (while keeping their own culture) and started business and worked hard. Whey they got here there was no hand out's for them. They had to work for whatever they wanted. Sadly the parents and families of these children, and teens know the US will take them in and take care of them. Sure some of them will have some work ethic and build lives for themselves, some will become criminals but many will just be another generation of welfare recipients... take a drive thru some of the neighborhoods of Detroit...do we need more of this ? We as a country can't deal with the issues we've started with our own much less more from other countries.
scarachuck...my ancestors from Italy and Poland moved to a neighborhood called South Chicago, a steel mill neighborhood, around the turn of the last century(1900)......
The interesting thing...many mexican legal immigrants did as well....their neighborhoods were well established in the 1920's, and they did things no different than the italians or poles, had their own catholic churches and ethnic stores on Commercial Av., even their own movie theater(Gayety theater)....my dad used to go there on Saturdays to watch cartoons in the mornings, and have candy at the store adjoining, and everyone hung out together, took the same buses, largely went to the same public schools.....
This was the church that Mexican neighborhood established, all the way back in 1923....still there and thriving 91 years later..
The point is, the Mexican immigrants came here legally back then, and slowly, same as the other groups...they assimilated, worked hard, blended in, and would not harbor illegals back then themselves....they wanted to be seen as no different than anyone else..they wanted to be Americans, and became americans..proudly....members of those families all served in the major wars....I knew their grandchildren 3 generations down by the time I came along, and they were no different than the poles or italians...listened to the same Top 40 music, some were stoners, some were preppy, same as anyone else.....they were as far removed from the "old country" as I was from my countries of Origin....I knew many that did not even speak Spanish.
That being said, this is a new paradigm......
We are having a VERY hard time providing jobs and opportunities/education for our own citizens now. There is not much to go around anymore, unlike back then.
We simply are looking at a zero sum cake..it is finite and shrinking, and there is sadly little to go around......
The only, and literally only, rationale now for immigration would be to allow those with needed skills, mostly tech orientated, and hopefully with a nest egg, to start businesses, same as Canada does...other than that, there has to be a very strict accounting for who else comes in.....
The door is not shut.....legal immigrants from essentially all countries in the world can STILL come here....they simply have to do it legally, not sneak over, and hope they don't get caught in the shadows......
This is not cute, and not a game.....we can't encourage our own young women to have children out of wedlock with no skills to become wards of the state either, which is happening only too often...
In our own country, per our own citizens, 44% of all children are born out-of-wedlock......we have huge problems of our own. Crime is still endemic in many cities...some cities have horrific job prospects......education is strapped for funds on all levels..college grads are strapped with college loans for years at 300-400 bucks a month, sometimes for decades, because there are not enough funds coming from the states themselves....
This SIMPLY is not the time for a huge influx of chronically poor, chronically uneducated people, legal or not, to come here. In a measured way, like the immigrants of yore I spoke of, yes.......but this has to be done the right way, measured, in time, under due legal process....this is not a joke...this is the real world..
El Salvador alone, a tiny country the size of San Fransisco, had 378 murders in June alone, that dwarfs any American city by far.
I would think you're going through that would make you more empathetic to the plight of these children, but you seem to feel they're just not tough enough like you were, is that it??
I think the top ten most dangerous large cities in the world are all in south and central America, except for like one or two.
Not all of the kids leaving those countries wants to join MS-13 or LK.
Honduras's largest city has a murder rate of 190.0 while Chicago's murder rate is below 30.0
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