Welcome to City-Data.com Forum!
U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Current Events
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 03-16-2015, 01:27 PM
 
Location: Maritime Northwest, WA
85 posts, read 154,975 times
Reputation: 120

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by jtab4994 View Post
Are you saying the Daily Mail made it up?
I'm saying the headline is unnecessarily incendiary. Certainly it gets them page views.

Quote:
(oops, you left out Roman Catholic)
I left out a lot of faiths, and people of no faith. But thanks for pointing it out.

Quote:
Are you saying that because children in previous generations were treated badly by the British government, that it's OK for this girl to be treated badly by the British government?
Nope, because she's not. She's promised a place in a school, not necessarily the one she'd prefer: it's like asking to attend a school in a US school district in which one doesn't reside, and then being shocked when the district says "I'm sorry, we don't have room". The school she's been assigned is the closest to her home: if she really doesn't want to attend it, there's another state school with places available that's further away, and the family has the option to appeal.

And Khalsa holds 50% of their spots open for non-Sikh students; IF she attends classes there, she probably isn't going to be the only one not doing RE, if her mother asks her to be excused.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 03-16-2015, 01:32 PM
 
Location: Dallas, TX
2,346 posts, read 6,910,079 times
Reputation: 2324
Quote:
Originally Posted by jtab4994 View Post
Are you saying the Daily Mail made it up?
The Daily Mail is not known for letting facts get in the way of a good headline.

In this case, the fact they are sweeping under the rug is that mom is an idiot.

In the UK, you're supposed to provide a ranked list of schools in your area you'd like your kid to attend (which could include both religious and secular schools). Had she done that, it's extremely unlikely that she would have been assigned the Sikh school.

Instead, this mom decided to "play chicken with the train" by a list of schools in a neighboring area. She gambled that they wouldn't dare to refuse ALL of her choices. Well, they did - and rightly so, since she doesn't live there.

As a result, with no valid preferences listed, she gets whatever is left over - in this case, a spot at the new Sikh school.

---

The other thing to note, that might be unclear to US posters, is that, unlike in the US, religious schools get substantial state funding, and are "sorta kinda" part of the general school system. Back in the day, this was a political move to allow the Catholic minority to send their kids to Catholic schools without the expense that US Catholics incur. Now, other faiths are just claiming that same right.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-16-2015, 01:33 PM
 
Location: Hialeah, Florida
506 posts, read 424,683 times
Reputation: 1334
Quote:
Originally Posted by jtab4994 View Post
The mom is not over-reacting at all. I can't imagine being told by the U.S. government that I have to send my kids to a religious school not of my choosing.

I am so happy that we broke away from England in 1776, especially when I read crazy crap like this, and it seems to be getting worse over there.
What is going on in England that indicates things are getting worse there, and what kind of things are getting worse?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-16-2015, 01:40 PM
 
14,249 posts, read 17,882,176 times
Reputation: 13807
Quote:
Originally Posted by Daily Mail Article
‘We knew we were ever so slightly out of the catchment for a number of our first choices but we never thought we would be given Khalsa.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lucy1965 View Post
it's like asking to attend a school in a US school district in which one doesn't reside, and then being shocked when the district says "I'm sorry, we don't have room".
Quote:
Originally Posted by Big G View Post


In the UK, you're supposed to provide a ranked list of schools in your area you'd like your kid to attend (which could include both religious and secular schools). Had she done that, it's extremely unlikely that she would have been assigned the Sikh school.

Instead, this mom decided to "play chicken with the train" by a list of schools in a neighboring area. She gambled that they wouldn't dare to refuse ALL of her choices. Well, they did - and rightly so, since she doesn't live there.

As a result, with no valid preferences listed, she gets whatever is left over - in this case, a spot at the new Sikh school.

The mother is entirely at fault here and is now trying to play the 'persecution' card to get her own way.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-16-2015, 01:46 PM
 
Location: Maritime Northwest, WA
85 posts, read 154,975 times
Reputation: 120
I've gone up to the school's website. Same curriculum, typical school uniform -- with a note stating clearly that non-Sikh students don't need head coverings -- the lunch menu's vegetarian, but it looks edible.

Poking around the gallery, either a lot of the boys in these photos come from non-observant families, or they aren't Sikh: they've got short hair.

And, there's this:

Quote:
The Sikh faith is emphatic in respecting all beliefs, and does not seek to convert.

While the Khalsa School is a Sikh faith school, we provide an environment for those that wish to follow any faith as well as those that do not have a faith. Facilities are provided for those pupils that wish to participate in a [sic] morning prayers linked with their faith.

Last edited by lucy1965; 03-16-2015 at 02:29 PM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-16-2015, 03:13 PM
 
Location: Coastal Georgia
50,152 posts, read 63,598,266 times
Reputation: 92831
Quote:
Originally Posted by Taiko View Post
Wouldn't the difference be a state forcing a child to a Catholic school because they didn't want to fund a secular state school, as opposed to Catholic schools accepting the children of non Catholics with the certainty that a percentage will join the Catholic church due to their school years exposure?
Yes, I'm not really sure how it works in England. I take your point.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-16-2015, 03:26 PM
 
Location: Shawnee-on-Delaware, PA
7,996 posts, read 7,348,224 times
Reputation: 16209
Quote:
Originally Posted by Big G View Post
The Daily Mail is not known for letting facts get in the way of a good headline.
LOL name one tabloid (left-wing or right-wing) that doesn't do that.

Quote:

In this case, the fact they are sweeping under the rug is that mom is an idiot.

In the UK, you're supposed to provide a ranked list of schools in your area you'd like your kid to attend (which could include both religious and secular schools). Had she done that, it's extremely unlikely that she would have been assigned the Sikh school.

Instead, this mom decided to "play chicken with the train" by a list of schools in a neighboring area. She gambled that they wouldn't dare to refuse ALL of her choices. Well, they did - and rightly so, since she doesn't live there.

As a result, with no valid preferences listed, she gets whatever is left over - in this case, a spot at the new Sikh school.

---
I see. Still, as an American who believes in the 1st Amendment (incidentally we send our kids to Catholic school) the idea of some government official or some official lottery system deciding that your kid should go to a religious school, cuts against the grain.

Quote:
The other thing to note, that might be unclear to US posters, is that, unlike in the US, religious schools get substantial state funding, and are "sorta kinda" part of the general school system. Back in the day, this was a political move to allow the Catholic minority to send their kids to Catholic schools without the expense that US Catholics incur. Now, other faiths are just claiming that same right.
That's interesting, if odd. The original U.S. Catholic school system was quite inexpensive for parents because the nuns essentially ran the schools for free. I wonder why they didn't just do that in England?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-16-2015, 03:37 PM
 
Location: Shawnee-on-Delaware, PA
7,996 posts, read 7,348,224 times
Reputation: 16209
Quote:
Originally Posted by Redgrasshat View Post
What is going on in England that indicates things are getting worse there, and what kind of things are getting worse?
For example, that greengrocer who priced bananas in pounds instead of in kilo's, getting arrested. Link to the left-wing non-tabloid Guardian to prove I am not making it up: Pounds and penance | The Guardian | guardian.co.uk

And the UK has notorious "hate speech" laws that can get you thrown in jail. In the U.S. "hate speech" can get you fired from your job or expelled from college but not actually arrested.

These are examples of why I thank my lucky stars that some rich white dudes had the sense to break with Mother England in 1776.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-16-2015, 03:49 PM
 
Location: Dallas, TX
2,346 posts, read 6,910,079 times
Reputation: 2324
Quote:
Originally Posted by jtab4994 View Post

That's interesting, if odd. The original U.S. Catholic school system was quite inexpensive for parents because the nuns essentially ran the schools for free. I wonder why they didn't just do that in England?
This is the UK equivalent of "school vouchers". The beef is the same as in the US - "Why should I have to pay double for my kids' educations - once through my taxes, and again through my tuition payments to (Catholic/Anglican/Muslim/etc.) school?"

The UK solution has been to co-opt the religious schools into their overall system. The state funds the religious schools, and they become yet another tax-funded education option. To keep the system somewhat non-discriminatory on paper, the schools are required to set aside X% of spots for kids outside the faith. (In practice, unless the school is particularly academically desirable, these spots often go unclaimed.)

It's not always about religion. There are small villages where the Anglican church might run a small school, otherwise its a 45 minute bus ride to the secular school. Or rough neighborhoods where a kid of ANY faith would be better off attending a Catholic school than the local state school.

They also have to cover the standard UK curriculum, and isolate the religious education component so that kids can opt out of that part of the school day. The extent to which these two things are actually done is a Hot Topic in the UK.

Interesting approach - would never fly in the US.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-16-2015, 04:11 PM
 
Location: Denver CO
24,204 posts, read 19,112,393 times
Reputation: 38266
Not with the religious aspect but I live in a neighborhood where we do not have an assigned school. We are in a zone where we can be assigned to any one of 5 different schools. You get to fill out a form and rank them in your preferred order but nothing is guaranteed. We actually just found out on Friday where everyone is assigned to. My child was lucky enough to get his first choice but from talking to neighbors and reading the posts on our local online groups, there are many disappointed families.

As I said, the religious aspect adds an additional layer, but it's the same basic principal. It sounds like this family didn't live where they had a guaranteed seat to the schools they preferred - they tried to get into those schools but they were already full. I don't know the full details but the article made it seem like there was a non-Sikh school they would have gotten into if they had tried but sounds like they probably had a limited number of choices to select and didn't go with any of the safer options where they lived within the catchment area and would have had a better chance of getting in.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:


Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Current Events
Similar Threads

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2024, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Contact Us - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37 - Top